[mauldin44]

Originally Posted by T-Man

Nice results! I'd be willing to bet that if dyno'd in 6th gear, it would have made comparable numbers to the M6 that went 560whp. From what I understand, 6th gear dyno would be unsafe lol...

Either way, with the addition of a converter, this car is going to scoot

I don't know what would be unsafe having a car only kept in place by straps going 160mph+ on a dyno :-).

RPM knows how to build a fast car, my car will go. The torque converter upgrade is needed to keep it under control when it's stopped or moving slow. All that power and the cam keeps pushing through the stock torque converter. I guess there are a lot worse problems to have.

[T-Man]

Originally Posted by mauldin44

I don't know what would be unsafe having a car only kept in place by straps going 160mph+ on a dyno :-).

RPM knows how to build a fast car, my car will go. The torque converter upgrade is needed to keep it under control when it's stopped or moving slow. All that power and the cam keeps pushing through the stock torque converter. I guess there are a lot worse problems to have.

Maybe the dyno was reading low that day?

Yes, I understand the new cam pushing through the stock converter but an aftermarket billet piece is going to have many more benefits than just keeping the tiger tamed at idle/low speeds. Just wait, you'll see (if this is your first stalled auto that is)

[mauldin44]

Originally Posted by T-Man

Maybe the dyno was reading low that day?

Yes, I understand the new cam pushing through the stock converter but an aftermarket billet piece is going to have many more benefits than just keeping the tiger tamed at idle/low speeds. Just wait, you'll see (if this is your first stalled auto that is)

I think the dyno was reading about right for my A8. I found this video of a baseline A8 that had roughly the same baseline numbers as mine. The 1:1 for the M6 is 4th gear, I believe for the A8 the 1:1 is either 5th or 6th gear. From my understanding would need to go a lot faster to see the same numbers, and would need to go a lot faster than most are comfortable with on a dyno.

[zeemak16]

to answer mauldin44 ? I wanted a pd blower , liked the results people were getting with there set ups , looks clean almost factory looking , I want to say its in the HP range I wanted to be in , but almost all do the same thing , thought about lsa conversions but the best place I thought to install was ADM but they never got back to me and there also located in texas , sorry for the long answer

[PRAY]

Just some knowledge guys. Don't take any of this as anything other than purely informational.

The cam isn't pushing through the converter due to power. It is solely due to the idle rpm required to keep the car running. That rpm I am assuming with this cam in 200-300rpm above stock. The converter is now sitting at a higher rpm starting to lock it up. That is what drives it through the brakes. Dropping the converter in there is going to be a world changer for you. You are going to have an entirely new animal on your hands.

I am no dyno guru but this dyno does not read low. 6th gear is the 1:1 gear for the A8. 4th gear is 1:1 for the M6. But since the M6 has to drive a 3.73 rear gear and the A8 has to only drive a 2.77 they will dyno much closer than people think. This helps mitigate the losses of the A8 on the dyno. I would have to do the math for the final drive ratio of the A8 in 5th. From all of my dyno testing on my car and a few others, there is always a gain from 5th to 6th. The strange thing is that if varies from car to car. My personal car picks up an average of 23rw from 5th to 6th. I have seen as little 10rw gains from 5th to 6th. I don't think the A8 is any more efficient than the older automatic's from GM. It is just a gear ratio deal when compared to the M6.

Running the dyno up to 200 mph is what it is rated for and designed for according to DJ. The factory limiter in the Camaro is 186 mph. If the car or dyno weren't "safe" at those speeds I am sure the manufactures would not have set the limitations where they are. I don't see a 2,000lb drum over coming four 5K straps on the rear and 4 chalk blocks on the front. I am not advocating doing it all the time but I don't see anything dangerous about it. I personally do all my testing in 5th and one money run in 6th to get comparable 1:1 dyno numbers.

When comparing gains on a dyno they need to at least start at the same AFR or best case scenario of max power for each combo. Unless we are only comparing tunes. Then obviously need to know pre and post.

Posted dyno numbers need to be listed in SAE, smoothed to 5, and laid over RPM to be comparable to other dyno's. But all DJ's read a little to a lot different. There are a ton of factors that go into what your dyno reads. STD usually reads about 10rw higher than SAE and depending on the run, MPH can add some rwhp over RPM. MPH may have to be used if you lost tach signal or something like that. There is more to using STD than what I am saying here. Luckily from what I have seen you can't over lay two runs with two different display factors. In the end, a dyno is a tool to get your ride performing it's best regardless of the final numbers it spits out.

[USAFS197]

See, I’m all for getting another converter but, I don’t see too many folks doing it and that’s makes me super hesitant. I wouldn’t want something that would be unruly for daily driving with a nice cam.

[mauldin44]

Originally Posted by PRAY

Just some knowledge guys. Don't take any of this as anything other than purely informational.

The cam isn't pushing through the converter due to power. It is solely due to the idle rpm required to keep the car running. That rpm I am assuming with this cam in 200-300rpm above stock. The converter is now sitting at a higher rpm starting to lock it up. That is what drives it through the brakes. Dropping the converter in there is going to be a world changer for you. You are going to have an entirely new animal on your hands.

I am no dyno guru but this dyno does not read low. 6th gear is the 1:1 gear for the A8. 4th gear is 1:1 for the M6. But since the M6 has to drive a 3.73 rear gear and the A8 has to only drive a 2.77 they will dyno much closer than people think. This helps mitigate the losses of the A8 on the dyno. I would have to do the math for the final drive ratio of the A8 in 5th. From all of my dyno testing on my car and a few others, there is always a gain from 5th to 6th. The strange thing is that if varies from car to car. My personal car picks up an average of 23rw from 5th to 6th. I have seen as little 10rw gains from 5th to 6th. I don't think the A8 is any more efficient than the older automatic's from GM. It is just a gear ratio deal when compared to the M6.

Running the dyno up to 200 mph is what it is rated for and designed for according to DJ. The factory limiter in the Camaro is 186 mph. If the car or dyno weren't "safe" at those speeds I am sure the manufactures would not have set the limitations where they are. I don't see a 2,000lb drum over coming four 5K straps on the rear and 4 chalk blocks on the front. I am not advocating doing it all the time but I don't see anything dangerous about it. I personally do all my testing in 5th and one money run in 6th to get comparable 1:1 dyno numbers.

When comparing gains on a dyno they need to at least start at the same AFR or best case scenario of max power for each combo. Unless we are only comparing tunes. Then obviously need to know pre and post.

Posted dyno numbers need to be listed in SAE, smoothed to 5, and laid over RPM to be comparable to other dyno's. But all DJ's read a little to a lot different. There are a ton of factors that go into what your dyno reads. STD usually reads about 10rw higher than SAE and depending on the run, MPH can add some rwhp over RPM. MPH may have to be used if you lost tach signal or something like that. There is more to using STD than what I am saying here. Luckily from what I have seen you can't over lay two runs with two different display factors. In the end, a dyno is a tool to get your ride performing it's best regardless of the final numbers it spits out.

Thanks for the information. I appreciate how you and others on this board break this stuff down. It helps someone like me who knows very little overall understand the why. Some of the dyno numbers make me scratch my head when I don't realize how they work, and what factors are involved such as the rear gearing between a M6 vs and A8.

I did want to ask what you meant by an entirely new animal when talking about the torque converter upgrade. Do you think that a good thing or a bad thing for just normal road driving? I haven't been able to find a lot of information on what to expect when you upgrade to a larger torque converter with a cam. The one I will be upgrading to is the Circle D Specialties GM 258mm HP Series 8L90 Torque Converter.

[mauldin44]

Originally Posted by USAFS197

See, I’m all for getting another converter but, I don’t see too many folks doing it and that’s makes me super hesitant. I wouldn’t want something that would be unruly for daily driving with a nice cam.

I would recommend calling the guys at Circle D Specialties who make the torque converters and just talk to them about your use case and what torque converter upgrade would be best for your situation. As long as you do a mild upgrade I was told you won't really notice it much after driving it a few times and getting used to it.

[PRAY]

My Circle D is the full billet 4C. I believe it is the 258. I had one of the first ones so I don't really remember. But this thing is awesome. It will take some tuning to get it right but you are in good hands with your tuner and builder. I am sure he knows much more about tuning these things than I do. The converter will eliminate your idle tugging at a stop.

A whole new animal is a good thing. It still drives very well but you have to be a little careful with throttle application. Car will go from being a dud down low to spinning the tires. With all the lock up and trans tuning tables available you shouldn't take any hits with drivability or fuel mileage. You will get into the power band much sooner in the lower gears. You will notice the converter slip if you go with the 4C through the first couple gears until the lock up comes in depending on how it is set up. My converter was built for a single purpose of being the first in the 10's bolt ons. So it is probably a little looser than the norm. I sent Chris my dyno sheet's on and off of E so he could work his magic. Now with the cam and it's loss of driving tq down low the converter is much more civil till you lean on the pedal. Then you just have to ensure that you have TC on or are pointed in the correct direction. The MSD also kills low speed tq so I am glad I ended up with the converter I did. I had my ported stock IM on the car when it was built.

If I were you I would send your dyno graph to Chris so he can build you the correct converter for your desires.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by USAFS197

See, I’m all for getting another converter but, I don’t see too many folks doing it and that’s makes me super hesitant. I wouldn’t want something that would be unruly for daily driving with a nice cam.

Putting the proper converter in the car will make it drive nicer. If you are not willing to spend the money on a good converter, then you should not go larger then a stage 1 219/227 116 cam.

[T-Man]

FWIW, I was being totally sarcastic with the low reading dyno comment. RPM and other shops get told the same crap all the time, depending on whether or not someone likes/dislikes the results.

Again, you've got a screamer OP and I can't wait to hear about your feedback with the addition of the converter.

[PRAY]

Originally Posted by T-Man

FWIW, I was being totally sarcastic with the low reading dyno comment. RPM and other shops get told the same crap all the time, depending on whether or not someone likes/dislikes the results.

Again, you've got a screamer OP and I can't wait to hear about your feedback with the addition of the converter.

LOL. Got ya buddy.

[mauldin44]

Originally Posted by T-Man

FWIW, I was being totally sarcastic with the low reading dyno comment. RPM and other shops get told the same crap all the time, depending on whether or not someone likes/dislikes the results.

Again, you've got a screamer OP and I can't wait to hear about your feedback with the addition of the converter.

It will likely be the 1st or 2nd week of November before I get the torque converter installed. The lead time to get one from Circle D is around 3-4 weeks.

[Deadi9mm]

Mauldin44 did they go into the trans computer and change any settings I heard it is difficult to get in to