[Posaune]

Originally Posted by merlin803

Maybe if industry analysts say it then people here won't think it is just being made up -

"Kelley Blue Book analyst Tim Fleming tells Motor1 that the raw delivery numbers don't tell the whole story, though, because there are far lower incentives on the Camaro. "GM’s strategy has more of a focus on profitability, but this is going to come at the cost of market share, as already seen in the sales numbers from this year. While sales are trending down, transaction prices and residual values for the Camaro are both doing very well and should help to build up the Chevrolet and Camaro brands in the coming years," he said in an email."

http://www.motor1.com/news/80568/cha...r-third-month/

Yet....somehow I think it isn't going to matter. There will still be plenty of Mustang owners over here trolling and trying to make themselves feel better about having a Mustang.

While that certainly makes sense, they fail to account for the growing inventory that is stacking up on dealer lots and a third shift being added to LGR. The Camaro is now at 4+ months of inventory and you don't add an extra shift when two would have been sufficient for the current sales volume of Camaro/ATS/CTS. No manufacturer would do that if they were expecting sales to be at the levels we are seeing.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by merlin803

Maybe if industry analysts say it then people here won't think it is just being made up -

"Kelley Blue Book analyst Tim Fleming tells Motor1 that the raw delivery numbers don't tell the whole story, though, because there are far lower incentives on the Camaro. "GM’s strategy has more of a focus on profitability, but this is going to come at the cost of market share, as already seen in the sales numbers from this year. While sales are trending down, transaction prices and residual values for the Camaro are both doing very well and should help to build up the Chevrolet and Camaro brands in the coming years," he said in an email."

http://www.motor1.com/news/80568/cha...r-third-month/

Yet....somehow I think it isn't going to matter. There will still be plenty of Mustang owners over here trolling and trying to make themselves feel better about having a Mustang.

Just because someone says that the Emperor's new clothes are gorgeous when he's actually walking around naked does not make the 'apparel' any less attractive. This is foolish thinking.

I don't think many - if any - on here think it is made up, at least I don't. But this sales strategy will ultimately go down as a huge failure for GM and especially for the 6G Camaro.

They are putting lipstick on their pig of marketing and will ride that pony until the Camaro Pony is no more.

You can't sell less and less of an item and expect to keep in business for long. Twice as much profit on half as much volume? Then build half as much product. Make it a limited production item. But don't keep mass producing it and expect it to keep selling when it is NOT selling well to begin with. As we have seen, the buying public is walking right on by the Camaro. And that does NOT bode well.

Dealers will soon enough begin to protest about overhead costs for floorplanning a large stock of unsellable volume - if they are not already - and will push other products instead; products that sell and make THEM money.

GM seems to be forgetting that just because the company can force feed their product to the dealer, that the dealer can NOT force feed his inventory to the buying public.

Does ANYONE think the general buying public gives a rat's ass about how GM is 'building up the Chevrolet and Camaro brand' by charging more for the Camaro? Um, no - the sales numbers say it all.

Frustrating indeed for many reasons and on so many fronts.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

2009-2014: Camaro is king! Camaro dominating! Go Camaro!

2015-Present: Who cares about sales numbers anyway?

Granted few here were on the old Camaro5 threads, but the difference between the two camps attitudes is fairly striking. Camaro6 folks talk and act more like Vette owners than their Gen5 predecessors.

A loud minority can skew reality. Social media and the internet can make you believe something is huge and taking over the world when it is often just a loud minority of people.

Was a member of Camaro5 since 2009, had three 5th Gens and never gave a crap about the 'sales war' then and don't now.

Also have never been to a Mustang website, not once.

All I care about is having a car that I enjoy driving every day and beyond that, I don't need to feel justified in my decision.

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by Posaune

While that certainly makes sense, they fail to account for the growing inventory that is stacking up on dealer lots and a third shift being added to LGR. The Camaro is now at 4+ months of inventory and you don't add an extra shift when two would have been sufficient for the current sales volume of Camaro/ATS/CTS. No manufacturer would do that if they were expecting sales to be at the levels we are seeing.

well, do we really know that is the case, is there a verifiable and accurate source for this?

If so, it is a good point.

[Raven87]

Now, the Cars.Com is far from being totally accurate as to sales inventory but it is a decent measuring tool. And actually, there are probably more numbers out there than what C.C shows because a lot of dealers do not advertise/list on C.C.

But as of this morning, C.C shows 24,887 NEW 2016 and 2017 Camaros - of all trims and body types - available for sale.

Using the same filters for the Mustang, there are 16,671 new Mustangs. That is ~8000 more Camaros sitting on lots than Mustangs and yet the sales strategy for GM is to make more profit by selling less?

What does this really say? That having about 2 months more inventory is a good thing when you are already sliding backwards? Hopefully this will change but we know it won't. We are really coming to the end of the sports car selling season and there will be a lot of these cars still there come winter, especially with GM building more and more every day.

Yes, the Camaro is a better performance car. I agree 100%. But this strategy of GM's just does not make sense.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

well, do we really know that is the case, is there a verifiable and accurate source for this?

If so, it is a good point.

I can't speak for inventory levels, what they are or what they should be, all I can say is the dealership that I bought mine had 1 on display in January (which I bought) and for the 7 month since I have NEVER seen more than one while driving by.

It is not like I live in a secluded area.

I went in last month to help my daughter get a Cruze and I asked the sales person how the 2016 Camaro sales were going "they are going great". "Why don't you have more?" "GM is limiting the availability but we are selling them just fine".

Now I figure, he is a sales guy, so take it with a grain of salt.

When we got to the finance guy, I ask him the same thing and got the same answer.

Who knows but they seem to have a strategy and I am not going to sweat if they are happy about their profits.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Just because someone says that the Emperor's new clothes are gorgeous when he's actually walking around naked does not make the 'apparel' any less attractive. This is foolish thinking.

I don't think many - if any - on here think it is made up, at least I don't. But this sales strategy will ultimately go down as a huge failure for GM and especially for the 6G Camaro.

They are putting lipstick on their pig of marketing and will ride that pony until the Camaro Pony is no more.

You can't sell less and less of an item and expect to keep in business for long. Twice as much profit on half as much volume? Then build half as much product. Make it a limited production item. But don't keep mass producing it and expect it to keep selling when it is NOT selling well to begin with. As we have seen, the buying public is walking right on by the Camaro. And that does NOT bode well.

Dealers will soon enough begin to protest about overhead costs for floorplanning a large stock of unsellable volume - if they are not already - and will push other products instead; products that sell and make THEM money.

GM seems to be forgetting that just because the company can force feed their product to the dealer, that the dealer can NOT force feed his inventory to the buying public.

Does ANYONE think the general buying public gives a rat's ass about how GM is 'building up the Chevrolet and Camaro brand' by charging more for the Camaro? Um, no - the sales numbers say it all.

Frustrating indeed for many reasons and on so many fronts.

Another great post.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Now, the Cars.Com is far from being totally accurate as to sales inventory but it is a decent measuring tool. And actually, there are probably more numbers out there than what C.C shows because a lot of dealers do not advertise/list on C.C.

But as of this morning, C.C shows 24,887 NEW 2016 and 2017 Camaros - of all trims and body types - available for sale.

Using the same filters for the Mustang, there are 16,671 new Mustangs. That is ~8000 more Camaros sitting on lots than Mustangs and yet the sales strategy for GM is to make more profit by selling less?

What does this really say? That having about 2 months more inventory is a good thing when you are already sliding backwards? Hopefully this will change but we know it won't. We are really coming to the end of the sports car selling season and there will be a lot of these cars still there come winter, especially with GM building more and more every day.

Yes, the Camaro is a better performance car. I agree 100%. But this strategy of GM's just does not make sense.

One good thing about Cars.com, you can filter to see how many cars were added in the last day, week and month. Tracking that over the month has let me predict pretty close what the monthly sales will be.

[triggerjerk]

The profit-per-unit drum bangers need to look up fixed vs. variable costs . . .

This car is over priced when you consider that it is a 100% parts-bin wonder.
I still think it is an awesome car and I plan on robbing a bank to get a ZL-1 but GM's
strategy seems to not be working.

Was alpha really that expensive to produce? Is the ATS also overpriced? If so, are ATS buyers subsidizing Camaro production. Is it the other way around? Do economies of scale no longer apply with the new GM?

And the whole "less units for higher resale" is bs. What good are resale values to a manufacturer if it doesn't translate into higher sales/revenue?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by DeliveryMan

Spook, you are right, I really assume that GM figured that the Camaro 2LT RS w/V6 would really become the replacement (in a round about way) for the SS. THe V6 Camaro is a a pretty bad ass car....but I think that this was a miscalculation on GM's part and they are seeing it in the Sales war with the Challenger and the Mustang.

Basically what I am saying is that GM thought that the market would shift and that most consumers would gobble up the V6 Camaro. If you look at almost every other car segment the V6 is the premium engine for the most part.

ANother thing is that I think GM also got a bit arrogant since the Silverado still sells with a $50k sticker and most ppl will still buy em, so in their reasoning they may have thought that consumers would be fine with the price of the Camaro.... but it is easier for a consumer to justify buying a pick up truck over a Pony Car.

I wanted the 2SS and got it, but I still was turned off about the price at first.
I did my research and then ordered it. The car is worth the price...but most consumers will not see that initially or even at all.

Just my take on everything.

the truck thing has to be taken with a grain of salt BC its easy to get anywhere from 8-10K off the MSRP of a truck.

Originally Posted by merlin803

I can't speak for inventory levels, what they are or what they should be, all I can say is the dealership that I bought mine had 1 on display in January (which I bought) and for the 7 month since I have NEVER seen more than one while driving by.

It is not like I live in a secluded area.

I went in last month to help my daughter get a Cruze and I asked the sales person how the 2016 Camaro sales were going "they are going great". "Why don't you have more?" "GM is limiting the availability but we are selling them just fine".

Now I figure, he is a sales guy, so take it with a grain of salt.

When we got to the finance guy, I ask him the same thing and got the same answer.

Who knows but they seem to have a strategy and I am not going to sweat if they are happy about their profits.

So your dealer says they are limiting availability yet one dealer by me has over 70 and another has almost 40 LOL

[Lafourche1]

Originally Posted by bharabs

But in a BMW those are different cars, in different sizes. Also, I won't compare Chevy with BMW. If that was the case why would GM have Cadillac brand at all.

It is good that SS performs well and its performance was compared to M4, but I would be surprised if we could convince even 10% of M4 or car buyers in that segment to buy a Camaro. At best they could go with Corvette, never a Camaro.

I haven't looked at the turbo 4 model and its pricing, I was interested in 1SS model and it costs $36,300 where as a GT premium costs $36,645. When you bring this up on this forum, the standard answer is you get a lot more for your money.

Actually the 3 and 4 series are the same size vehicles. There is some small differences in some of the packaging, but for the most part they are the same size.

While you may be correct in that few M4 buyers will cross-shop the SS, it is my opinion that the SS is a lower priced, better performer, with equal to or better features than the M440i, M340i and S5. I know that I shopped those cars and picked the SS. While getting the market penetration and awareness may take some time, it doesn't mean that it will not happen or that it isn't happening. It is still my opinion that GM has this as part of their long term marketing strategy. GM consciously made a choice to move away from high volume, low profit fleet sales with the Camaro. The engineering and quality are definitely moving upscale, along with the pricing.

It took a good while for the Corvette to make in-roads into the more upscale sports car market. However, the C7 has made that move successfully. The price / performance / value equation has been proven successful. Don't you think that Porsche, Jaguar and other marques are well aware of the Corvette as true competition? Why wouldn't the same strategy be followed by the Camaro team?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

Actually the 3 and 4 series are the same size vehicles. There is some small differences in some of the packaging, but for the most part they are the same size.

While you may be correct in that few M4 buyers will cross-shop the SS, it is my opinion that the SS is a lower priced, better performer, with equal to or better features than the M440i, M340i and S5. I know that I shopped those cars and picked the SS. While getting the market penetration and awareness may take some time, it doesn't mean that it will not happen or that it isn't happening. It is still my opinion that GM has this as part of their long term marketing strategy. GM consciously made a choice to move away from high volume, low profit fleet sales with the Camaro. The engineering and quality are definitely moving upscale, along with the pricing.

It took a good while for the Corvette to make in-roads into the more upscale sports car market. However, the C7 has made that move successfully. The price / performance / value equation has been proven successful. Don't you think that Porsche, Jaguar and other marques are well aware of the Corvette as true competition? Why wouldn't the same strategy be followed by the Camaro team?

Someone correct me if I am wrong but hasn't Corvette been fighting that fight to get recognized with the likes of Porche since the 60s?

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by shaffe

the truck thing has to be taken with a grain of salt BC its easy to get anywhere from 8-10K off the MSRP of a truck.



So your dealer says they are limiting availability yet one dealer by me has over 70 and another has almost 40 LOL

The point was that you can't use just your area as an indicator for the whole country, as I can't mine.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by merlin803

The point was that you can't use just your area as an indicator for the whole country, as I can't mine.

I know thats why i put the LOL.

Different areas and its complete 180 haha