[SpookShow'84]

The new mustang looks good to a lot of people but to me it's the worst looking of the 3 now, and is at a low point in mustang looks. The car peaked in looks and performance in '13.

[germanicus]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

I fell head over heels for the Camaro when I bought my Gen5 in 2012. But its a V6 and I'm wanting to move up to a V8 and buy new. The current pricing for the 1SS is just too much and I'm starting to look at GTs.

Al Oppenhieser said the Camaro is selling on average for for $3,700 more than Mustangs. Maybe that makes sense for GM but it doesn't for me. As much as I love the Camaro I just can't justify paying that much more for one right now.

Definitely take a GT PP (its much more planted than the non-PP) out for a test drive. I'm over the moon with it. But you may want to see if Chevy offers more incentives in the near future and get a 1ss if that really speaks to you.

I think both cars are pretty fantastic, each a bit different in what they offer.

I don't understand the vitriol some folks have on either side for the other. Its one thing to be offended if I personally designed the car, but only you the buyer have to live with it each day.

[Red Chief]

$31k for this. I hadn't noticed how Ford copied the Camaro's side panels...

http://www.holzhauers.com/inventory/...s.cfm?id=10642

[Lafourche1]

Originally Posted by bharabs

Depends. But the sooner we agree pricing is the issue resulting in sales, the better it is for all of us. You can always build a better car with more features that cost more. But here the fight is in the Pony car segment, which means a cheap, affordable sport car. People saying the camaro is moving into a different segment are only doing so based on the SS vs M4 comparison. If that was the case, they would not have introduced the 4 banger with the 6th gen.

My thought is that since BMW offers a 4 pot 2, 3 and 4 series, there is some advantages to offering the lower cost options.

My opinion is that the car is that the standard features should be kept to a minimum so that the base price is competitive. You may add these features as per your needs and affordability. Instead of saying "you are getting a lot more for your money", let me chose where I want to spend my money.

That is the model that BMW, MB and Audi have chosen. Basically the steering wheel is an option in these brands. The reality is that most people option their cars up to a certain point. Just to state; the M4 in the Head to Head video cost $80K and did not have leather and several other features. Comparably equipped to the 2SS, it would have pushed the M4 price over $90K.

Just to ask, what standard equipment on the base model turbo 4 Camaro would you have them leave out?

The Camaro is a more finely engineered car than either the Mustang or the Mopar offerings. There are a couple of packages that deliver higher levels of equipment. I am guessing that the numbers folks at GM had significant input into what should be in each package.

[bharabs]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

My thought is that since BMW offers a 4 pot 2, 3 and 4 series, there is some advantages to offering the lower cost options.



That is the model that BMW, MB and Audi have chosen. Basically the steering wheel is an option in these brands. The reality is that most people option their cars up to a certain point. Just to state; the M4 in the Head to Head video cost $80K and did not have leather and several other features. Comparably equipped to the 2SS, it would have pushed the M4 price over $90K.

Just to ask, what standard equipment on the base model turbo 4 Camaro would you have them leave out?

The Camaro is a more finely engineered car than either the Mustang or the Mopar offerings. There are a couple of packages that deliver higher levels of equipment. I am guessing that the numbers folks at GM had significant input into what should be in each package.

But in a BMW those are different cars, in different sizes. Also, I won't compare Chevy with BMW. If that was the case why would GM have Cadillac brand at all.

It is good that SS performs well and its performance was compared to M4, but I would be surprised if we could convince even 10% of M4 or car buyers in that segment to buy a Camaro. At best they could go with Corvette, never a Camaro.

I haven't looked at the turbo 4 model and its pricing, I was interested in 1SS model and it costs $36,300 where as a GT premium costs $36,645. When you bring this up on this forum, the standard answer is you get a lot more for your money.

[Marty McFlew]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

The Camaro has been cancelled.

You LIE!

[hangover]

Originally Posted by aestil

Thank you for sharing your take!

Of course a reasonably equipped 2SS is probably $46 or $47k, and unless you're 4'6" the back seat of both cars are incredibly impractical for any distance.

I personally hated the looks of the 5th Gen car and thought 'finally they trimmed all the fat and absurdity out of that car' when I first saw the 6th gen.

So I guess what we've just learned is that different people with different needs and requirements will have different opinions on cars.

I'm really glad you went and got your GT350 if it makes you happy. That is a special motor and a very unique car. Not sure why you're comparing a $55k+ car [base price] to a $37k car [base price]. The GT350 will certainly outperform a 1SS, but a 1SS will outperform a GT PP for similar pricing. Seems like you were comparing apples to applesauce?

What really surprises me is how the 1SS isn't taking off. I mean, you get the Vette motor for 36k? They should be selling a TON of these.

The problem is, the car got too small, trunk and rear seats are a complete joke, you are wrong about the rear seats - they are usable on the Mustang - they are NOT on the Camaro - and the 1SS interior is just horrible. So basically people are going with the Mustang and Challenger because you get unfathomable larger cars in the segment for under 33K / 30K respectively. I'm only talking the V8s.

The V6 last gen Camaro was really nice. I love the convertible. Why they don't have the RS is just more clueless GM *something*.. Unless they are limited by the Cadillac plant or something - who knows - who cares I guess.

My personal experience - wanted to love the new Camaro really bad. I like a small package - 135i - was my last car - and this Camaro has NO room in the back seats, horrible visibility compared to a supposed compact 135i for crying out loud. If GM had just got 2-3 more inches of leg room, some extra space in the trunk OPENING, I'd be all over the car for say, 42K. I'm talking about a 2SS with mag ride and exhaust setting option. Because of the limitations of the Camaro, I decided I didn't want the "slow" Mustang 5.0 (which is not fast enough for me) and went with the best car in the segment currently - the GT350.

[hangover]

Originally Posted by Marty McFlew

You LIE!

LOL !!

Camaro isn't cancelled - YET. LOL. If auto sales continue this trend down and we actually hit the next recession, well...

We are due for one - it's been all up since what, end of '09?

[hangover]

Originally Posted by SpookShow'84

The Mustang looks like a Fusion coupe, although I do like the fusion.

GM is trying to sell the car at champagne prices when most of the traditional buyers are beer budgeted. It is better but isn't the car for everyone. They're filling a gap where things used to be, before the Vette goes mid engine and $100k+ in price probably. The V6 is going to be the new Camaro, the SS is going to be the new Vette. The sales results are the growing pains.

I've heard that too - and the front end at certain angles does look Fusion-esque - which isn't a bad thing anyway.

Great observation on everything else too. Interesting take.

Not sure I agree though. Love the analogy. Just left the Porsche dealer - dang those are some sweet machines. Can I get a Macan GTS to go with the GT350?

[hangover]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Look, this is not bitching when the facts are clear that the newest version of the Camaro is DROPPING in sales numbers each month while the other two competitors' numbers are rising.

This disingenuous assumption that GM is selling the number they want is ludicrous. If that is the case, they would not have a 4 month inventory on the lots and they would not be making more and more each day only to see them get stacked deeper with the hope that, well, they will sell eventually and we will make the big bucks when it does.

Just like the 5th Gen Z/28.

I don't buy it for one minute that this declining sales number is or will remain acceptable. While making good profit on the car that is sold is good business, selling LESS and LESS of them each month is not sound sales strategy. You would not want to incur production costs in an item for sale IF IT DOES NOT SELL and the sales drop consecutively.

When buyers see the lots getting more and more of the cars just sitting there the thought process is that 'Any day now will be the fire sale with big rebates'. So they wait even more - or go buy a Mustang or Challenger.

And we all know that using rebates to move product tells you one thing - it was overpriced to begin with. GRRR!

This has nothing to do with selling more than Ford or Dodge - it has to do with selling what you make. If what you make does not sell, there is a problem.

GM has a problem with the new Camaro sales plain and simple and anyone who thinks otherwise has their head in the sand. You can argue that they would have more incentives if they were worried but GM has proven before that they wait too late to do enough things that should have been done long before the ax fell.

Yep - the 2SS is overpriced. Should be around 42-43K. Still can't believe how small this car got in ALL THE WRONG PLACES too. And the 1SS interior is just unacceptable. Good for a rental. That's about it.

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by hangover

What really surprises me is how the 1SS isn't taking off. I mean, you get the Vette motor for 36k? They should be selling a TON of these.

The problem is, the car got too small, trunk and rear seats are a complete joke, you are wrong about the rear seats - they are usable on the Mustang - they are NOT on the Camaro - and the 1SS interior is just horrible. So basically people are going with the Mustang and Challenger because you get unfathomable larger cars in the segment for under 33K / 30K respectively. I'm only talking the V8s.

The V6 last gen Camaro was really nice. I love the convertible. Why they don't have the RS is just more clueless GM *something*.. Unless they are limited by the Cadillac plant or something - who knows - who cares I guess.

My personal experience - wanted to love the new Camaro really bad. I like a small package - 135i - was my last car - and this Camaro has NO room in the back seats, horrible visibility compared to a supposed compact 135i for crying out loud. If GM had just got 2-3 more inches of leg room, some extra space in the trunk OPENING, I'd be all over the car for say, 42K. I'm talking about a 2SS with mag ride and exhaust setting option. Because of the limitations of the Camaro, I decided I didn't want the "slow" Mustang 5.0 (which is not fast enough for me) and went with the best car in the segment currently - the GT350.

Nice trolling. Everyone go to the May monthly total sales thread where hangover tells everyone that he has a 16 Mustang without the performance package. States he wanted the GT350 but Ford was making it impossible with those prices. Here he is in July monthly sales and he has a GT350. This guy is a troll and should be banned

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by hangover

Yep - the 2SS is overpriced. Should be around 42-43K. Still can't believe how small this car got in ALL THE WRONG PLACES too. And the 1SS interior is just unacceptable. Good for a rental. That's about it.

It's no smaller than your imaginary GT350

[BlaqWhole]

The Mustang boys talking a LOT of shit over on their forum right now, LOL!! This whole rivalry thing went from respectful competitiveness to straight up childishness. I mean, some of them are coming over here and actually copying and pasting comments from here over on their site just to brag and talk trash, lol!! SMH!! But, the Camaro crowd talk a lot of trash for the few years they were on top too. So I guess that is what this sport has come down to. People who buy something and claim it is better than someone else who went out and bought something else.

[DeliveryMan]

Originally Posted by SpookShow'84

The Mustang looks like a Fusion coupe, although I do like the fusion.

GM is trying to sell the car at champagne prices when most of the traditional buyers are beer budgeted. It is better but isn't the car for everyone. They're filling a gap where things used to be, before the Vette goes mid engine and $100k+ in price probably. The V6 is going to be the new Camaro, the SS is going to be the new Vette. The sales results are the growing pains.

Spook, you are right, I really assume that GM figured that the Camaro 2LT RS w/V6 would really become the replacement (in a round about way) for the SS. THe V6 Camaro is a a pretty bad ass car....but I think that this was a miscalculation on GM's part and they are seeing it in the Sales war with the Challenger and the Mustang.

Basically what I am saying is that GM thought that the market would shift and that most consumers would gobble up the V6 Camaro. If you look at almost every other car segment the V6 is the premium engine for the most part.

ANother thing is that I think GM also got a bit arrogant since the Silverado still sells with a $50k sticker and most ppl will still buy em, so in their reasoning they may have thought that consumers would be fine with the price of the Camaro.... but it is easier for a consumer to justify buying a pick up truck over a Pony Car.

I wanted the 2SS and got it, but I still was turned off about the price at first.
I did my research and then ordered it. The car is worth the price...but most consumers will not see that initially or even at all.

Just my take on everything.