[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The Shelby is faster than some cars that are more expensive. But those cars have other features that justify why they are more expensive. Like luxury, tech, options, AWD, etc. The GT350(R) has none of that. And early on it was very poorly optioned even among Pony Car standards. And even when you did option it they made you pick between certain things that could not be added if other things were added. Like not being able to combine the tech pack and the track pack. So comparing it to more expensive cars that integrate performance and luxury/tech and then saying that it beats more expensive cars is not a fair comparison. It cannot beat cars in it's same category that are priced similarly. And it cannot beat cars in it's same category that are cheaper even tho those cars are optioned better. That is what I meant.

We have had this argument to death LOL. So lets save everyone the back and forth lol.

Originally Posted by hotlap

Doh. That what I get for dipping into the conversation and making a quick smart ass post.

hahaha all good.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Which one overheated after 1 lap tho? That is an important part that gets left out. Yea lets take both cars around a track and blast them to high hell...but only for one lap because the GT won't be able to go a second lap.

So no they are not close enough when they are both pushed and one can't go more than the first lap without hitting limp mode.

The GT is not a balanced vehicle as seen in the fact that Ford threw those aggressive tires on it and the suspension and cooling system can't keep up. Ford did that because they are a gimmick manufacturer. They threw those tires on so that they could say "look, or GT can now hang with the SLE" even tho it overheated after that lap. It's like trying to hang out with rich people and spending a shit load of money in one night but then being broke for the next 7 months while they can do it every night.

Everything with Ford is gimmick. The GT runs blah blah blah...but only when optioned a specific way. The GT500 feels much lighter than it really is...then doesn't release the 4200 pound weight for a few weeks after that statement. Oh the GT350R is $5K more expensive but we tweaked it and made some adjustments so it has more performance...bullshit. What tweaks did they do, how does it relate to better performance, and is it worth the extra money? (Crickets). Engines that rev to 8250 but drink a quart of oil and vibrate to pieces. New 460 HP engines which after only a year and a half there are lots of people on the second and third one. A "480" HP version with a "Bullitt" emblem on it. Extreme track performance without adequate cooling. How much for racing stripes on the GT500 again? Because on the C8 it is $995. They are a joke.


And overheating...

Yeah you can see Ford has been playing catch up by everything they do. GM really caught them with their pants down and it's not a recent thing either.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Not to mention he's counting the 11 as a test by a reputable publication. The a10 GT pp1 is a very fast pony car and the repeatable and controlled Car and Driver and Motortrend 12.1s are impressive legit times, but that 11 on a prepped track after a whole day of trying for it is hardly worth mentioning. Might as well mention cars on the fast list.

to be fair cars.com also got an 11.9 in their test. so two* reviews got sub 12 seconds times.

[IneedAZ]

Something to watch out for when they report times is that they don't add in a correction factor. I don't recall which site i was on and they actually added in the verbage that a correction factor was added for DA/Alt. All of the companies doing these reviews should have to publish time slip in the article along with the Alt/DA it was run at. Also, has a competitors car been tested at the same track with same conditions? There are a few tracks in the country that people seem to run faster than others.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

to be fair cars.com also got an 11.9 in their test. so two* reviews got sub 12 seconds times.

To be really fair... Cars.com has the press hero run for the GT*, Hellcat Challenger and Hellcat Charger. They post the fastest time of all publications but have never tested a SS or ZL1.

One can point to Evan or cars.com as a source, but its reasonable for Camaro fans to point that out our car never got the same "treatment".

Our SS was so far ahead of the pack at its Nov 2015 introduction that no publication really squeezed the best from the car. The Camaro is a easy 12.0 car with an automatic. 11s are doable given the same "treatment".
My 12.24 doesn't even make the top 30 fast list anymore.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

To be really fair... Cars.com has the press hero run for the GT*, Hellcat Challenger and Hellcat Charger. They post the fastest time of all publications but have never tested a SS or ZL1.

One can point to Evan or cars.com as a source, but its reasonable for Camaro fans to point that out our car never got the same "treatment".

Our SS was so far ahead of the pack at its Nov 2015 introduction that no publication really squeezed the best from the car. The Camaro is a easy 12.0 car with an automatic. 11s are doable given the same "treatment".
My 12.24 doesn't even make the top 30 fast list anymore.

That does bug me that they never reviewed the SS like they did the Mustang and Challenger. The only thing I can think of is GM didn't give them one to review like the Mustang and Challenger.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by shaffe

That does bug me that they never reviewed the SS like they did the Mustang and Challenger. The only thing I can think of is GM didn't give them one to review like the Mustang and Challenger.

Only reason I can think of for NOT giving them one is if they have at some time or another abused a car. Where was the journalist from who crashed the car during the Cam6 launch event on Belle Isle? I'm thinking he was from Jalopnik, but if it was Cars.com, that very well might answer the question. Conversely, didn't Cars.com do a comparison of 2018 Camaro SS vert vs Mustang GT vert? If I recall, the Camaro was a Hot Wheels vert.

***EDIT*** Found it! https://jalopnik.com/i-was-the-first...evr-1705084839

***EDIT pt DEUX**** It was Motor1, not Cars.com. And it was a Hot Wheels vert. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...99A2&FORM=VIRE

[shaffe]

It looks like cars.com did have a 2016 SS for a test.....but they road tripped from Dallas to New Mexico

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

It looks like cars.com did have a 2016 SS for a test.....but they road tripped from Dallas to New Mexico

Recall Chevy’s "Finding New Roads" media event where the press drew keys and then went on a 1500 mile road trip? They signed an agreement that they wouldn't race.

Hotrod violated that agreement and took the two cars they got to a drag strip, with Jeff Lutz, and did an “unscientific” manual vs automatic drag race comparison. Hotrod asked Chevy for a wavier afterwards.

That Hodrod test (video) illustrates perfectly how unserious they were about maximizing the ET. Look up the video and go to time mark 4:00

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=66kcZYTncMg

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

It looks like cars.com did have a 2016 SS for a test.....but they road tripped from Dallas to New Mexico

I wonder why they didn’t test a ZL1 A10.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Only reason I can think of for NOT giving them one is if they have at some time or another abused a car. Where was the journalist from who crashed the car during the Cam6 launch event on Belle Isle? I'm thinking he was from Jalopnik, but if it was Cars.com, that very well might answer the question. Conversely, didn't Cars.com do a comparison of 2018 Camaro SS vert vs Mustang GT vert? If I recall, the Camaro was a Hot Wheels vert.

***EDIT*** Found it! https://jalopnik.com/i-was-the-first...evr-1705084839

***EDIT pt DEUX**** It was Motor1, not Cars.com. And it was a Hot Wheels vert. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...99A2&FORM=VIRE

Excuse my language, but that dude was a...pick any 4 letter curse word followed by "head". I remember that post showing up on here years ago and all of us commenting on it. He did it on purpose thinking it would give him 15 minutes of fame. From what I heard he got kicked off the property and banned from ever attending one of those events. He could have seriously injured somebody with his bullshit.

[BlaqWhole]

As far as Cars.com and their testing the Mustangs and Challengers...I don't really care that they didn't test the Camaro like they did the other cars. The Camaro proved itself back in 2016. Then the ZL1 proved itself in 2017. And even now the competition still has catching up to do. So that shows just how far ahead of the pack the Camaro was. There were YTers hitting 11.8-11.9 in bone stack Camaros. And after 4 years they are still the benchmark for performance. If the Mustang is the fastest or if the Camaro is the slowest then all of that is in only one area (quarter mile), it isn't by much (1 tenth maybe), and the Camaro has more performance, features, and capability (coolers) than the competition. And all of that at a similar price. So fine, the Camaro is the "slowest" in the quarter mile, lol!! Ok. Sure.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

As far as Cars.com and their testing the Mustangs and Challengers...I don't really care that they didn't test the Camaro like they did the other cars. The Camaro proved itself back in 2016. Then the ZL1 proved itself in 2017. And even now the competition still has catching up to do. So that shows just how far ahead of the pack the Camaro was. There were YTers hitting 11.8-11.9 in bone stack Camaros. And after 4 years they are still the benchmark for performance. If the Mustang is the fastest or if the Camaro is the slowest then all of that is in only one area (quarter mile), it isn't by much (1 tenth maybe), and the Camaro has more performance, features, and capability (coolers) than the competition. And all of that at a similar price. So fine, the Camaro is the "slowest" in the quarter mile, lol!! Ok. Sure.

I'm back
So we don't count journalist independent reviews of the GT in which the car ran 11s, but we do count private owner claims that their stock Camaro ran 11s.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Sounds like a good time. You within driving distance of the Dragon?

Unfortunately no I think it is about 8-hrs from me. I would love to attend if it were a little closer to me. Maybe someday.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Hey man, I hope you're doing ok during this Hurricane Dorian. Stay safe.

All good here. We evacuated for a few days. Neighborhood had damage and some areas very close had significant damages. We were lucky only a few tree branches down at my house, and no power for 1-day when we returned.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by newmoon

All good here. We evacuated for a few days. Neighborhood had damage and some areas very close had significant damages. We were lucky only a few tree branches down at my house, and no power for 1-day when we returned.

Good to hear Newmoon! I know too well the devastation hurricanes bring with them, glad you made out safe and with so little damage.