[hotlap]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

The GT350 shares the same chassis as the GT and navigates around the track quite nicely. This is entirely a suspension and tire problem...or rather a suspension and tire that is softened as a compromise for a daily driver. The PP2 "should" address these issues.

The GT PP2 was developed after hours and weekend. Off the books

The SS, SS 1LE and ZL1 1LE were all developed on the Nurburgring.

I wouldn’t get your hopes set too high.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Are you sure it is exactly the same chassis as the GT350? Ford said the GT350 is unique from the windshield forward, which to me includes changes to the chassis. So, I am not sure that I would assume that the chassis is exactly the same in the GT350 and the other Mustangs.

Plus, with all the awesome things said about the GT350, I can't recall anyone raving about the chassis. The handling, yes, for sure, but not sure anyone has specifically called out the chassis.

AND, even Ford's literature said that the PP1 includes "unique chassis and antilock brake tuning". You get different chassis tuning just by getting PP1.

Also, I agree that the PP2 will have be better on the road course. I was looking at the package, and it includes a 67 percent stiffer rear stabilizer bar, a 12 percent stiffer front stabilizer bar. In the videos, you can see the rear end dancing around like crazy. The 67% stiffer rear sway bar can help tame that.

But, as for the softer suspension for daily driving, they missed the mark. With Magenride, you can stiffen the hell out of the suspension, and let Magneride soften up for the bumpy bits. That's the beauty of it. You get the best of both worlds (comfort AND performance) at the same time. What good does it do to add Mangneride to a sloppy suspension?

Magneride is great, but it can only do so much...it isn't able to compensate for a stiffer spring rate. I would expect the suspension to be much more on par with what is seen on the 350R. Livable, but much less comfort for those rougher roads.

As for the chassis, I have not found a single piece of literature that shows any actual chassis differences between the GT and GT350. Suspension, yes...totally different.

And raving about the handling IS raving about the chassis. If the GT350 flexed like a wet noodle, it would handle like shit.

Originally Posted by hotlap

The GT PP2 was developed after hours and weekend. Off the books

The SS, SS 1LE and ZL1 1LE were all developed on the Nurburgring.

I wouldn’t get your hopes set too high.

I think you are grossly underestimating what additional suspension improvements, huge tire width changes and racing compound tires will do for the GT. Just because it was "off the books" doesn't mean it's going to be a bust.

[FastCarFanBoy]

[Gunkk]

...and still couldn’t beat the SS

Way to go Chevy!!!

[irmb]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

the 390 FE was a truck engine.

That's like saying the chevy 350 was a truck engine. - even though it showed up in corvettes and Camaro's.

They built 390's in all sorts of configurations. Some were for trucks, some for regular cars - and the GT packaged 390's - like on the bullitt were for performance cars.

The 390 was part of the FE family of engines which included the engines run in nascar and in the GT40 at lemans. Hardly truck engines, those.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

...and still couldn’t beat the SS

Way to go Chevy!!!

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Magneride is great, but it can only do so much...it isn't able to compensate for a stiffer spring rate. I would expect the suspension to be much more on par with what is seen on the 350R. Livable, but much less comfort for those rougher roads.

As for the chassis, I have not found a single piece of literature that shows any actual chassis differences between the GT and GT350. Suspension, yes...totally different.

And raving about the handling IS raving about the chassis. If the GT350 flexed like a wet noodle, it would handle like shit.



I think you are grossly underestimating what additional suspension improvements, huge tire width changes and racing compound tires will do for the GT. Just because it was "off the books" doesn't mean it's going to be a bust.

Might want to take a read...sounds like a lot of changes compared to the base S550.

https://blog.caranddriver.com/ford-m...ressed-we-are/

Another thing you are forgetting is the weight. The GT350 (even the TP ones) weight noticeably less than the GT PP1. Now you are talking about beefing it up to take on a 1LE, that means even more weight. Weight is a big factor in terms of track times, much more so than in drag racing.

They will undoubtedly get better grip and less body roll, but the PP2 will not have the power of the GT350, it will weight significantly more than the 1LE, and the GT PP1 hasn't even beat the base SS lap times. What you are expecting is a miracle, and Ford isn't going to deliver that. Beating the base SS and getting close to the 1LE's times is probably the best you could hope for.

Also what happened to the MPSS' being such a better tire than the SS' GYs? The "improved" suspension on the '18 only generated 0.01g and 3 tenths of a sec better on the figure 8. Guess the tires and all those tweaks really didn't pay much of a dividend. The SS could just swap to a MPSS and probably gain more improvement than the GT did.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The GT PP2 was developed after hours and weekend. Off the books

The SS, SS 1LE and ZL1 1LE were all developed on the Nurburgring.

I wouldn’t get your hopes set too high.

The 5th gen 1LE was developed by engineers, off the clock. It seemed to do ok.

[Gunmetalmissle]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

The two cars are much more than 5 horse apart and much less than 100 lbs apart. More like a minimum of 20 hp apart and closer to a 50 lb weight difference with ford being heavier and more powerful.

Where are you getting this? Same day same dyno show the Camaro putting down more hp and the very video this thread is discussing show the the mustang heavier by 117 pounds. The pp2 adds chassis bracing, larger radiator, larger brakes, and larger wheels and tires so the mustang most comparable to the 1LE will only be even heavier.

[IOMike]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Problem is its not only faster, it is pulling the SS like a freight train. If there is any surprise out of this test, this is it. Is the gearing slowing the 1LE down or is it strictly running out of ideal rpm, the extra 5-hp the GT carries can't account for 6+mph?

Wider stickier tires have more drag. This is a big deal at those speeds, as is aero. A regular SS would have had a faster speed.

I swear you mustang guys wait until a review is done and if it "wins" in 1 category and loses in 100, that 1 is all that matters.

What's concerning is Ford had 2 years to release this enourmous MCE update only to match straight line speed and fall short in handling. S650 can't cone soon enough.

[Syphon23]

Originally Posted by Gunmetalmissle

Where are you getting this? Same day same dyno show the Camaro putting down more hp and the very video this thread is discussing show the the mustang heavier by 117 pounds. The pp2 adds chassis bracing, larger radiator, larger brakes, and larger wheels and tires so the mustang most comparable to the 1LE will only be even heavier.

Dont you know?!? The 18 GT Dyno says its 500HP at the crank! /EndSarcasm

[jmackisback]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Listen I get it the Camaro is quicker and the Mustang is Faster. What I can't understand is why the deficit at all, it makes no sense?

In regards to where this advantage would be, i would think any highway roll race which seems to be the popular form of street racing these days.

And yet on the los racing youtube channel the Camaro pulls the Mustang in every roll. 0-150 time is not indicative of the results in regards to a roll race.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The 5th gen 1LE was developed by engineers, off the clock. It seemed to do ok.

The 5th gen was developed one step at a time building on previous successes. The 6th gen was planned in its entirety from the beginning. The two don’t compare.

I never heard that the 5th 1LE was “off the books.” I understood it to be trickle down from the ZL1.

Trickle-Down Trackonomics

Chevy previewed the 1LE package with a concept at last year’s SEMA show. The production model will replace the Camaro SS’s standard Tremec TR6060-M10 six-speed manual transmission with a close-ratio TR6060-MM6 six-speed stick and a higher final-drive ratio of 3.91:1. The transmission also gets a cooling system, like on the ZL1. The V-8's output is unchanged from that of manual SS models, at 426 hp and 420 lb-ft of torque. Suspension modifications include a larger, 27-mm front anti-roll bar, a 28-mm rear anti-roll bar, ZL1 toe links, ZL1 rear shock mounts, a strut-tower brace. Beefier half-shafts are supposed to help cope with the improved traction, wheel bearings come from the ZL1, and the fuel system has been upgraded with the ZL1’s high-capacity fuel pump and additional fuel pickups to avoid high-g fuel starvation. The 20x10 front and 20x11 rear wheels are inspired by the ZL1’s rims and are shod with 285/35ZR20 Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperCar G: 2 tires at all four corners, the same ones that come on the ZL1’s front wheels.

The only important items not carried over from the 1LE concept are the ZL1’s magnetorheological dampers. Instead, the production 1LE gets specifically tuned monotube dampers in place of the Camaro SS’s standard twin-tube units.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/20...amaro-1le-news

[jmackisback]

Which car is fastest to 156 mph?