[KindaOrange]

Hey folks! Looking for some guidance about the following:

Currently driving a 2018 2SS (non-1LE). Owned for the past 4 years and love this thing, never expected to get so into driving & loving the road, but this car just makes the road so special. Also been tracking the thing in the northeast US for the past few years at NJMP, Summit Point, Watkins Glen, etc...

My question:

The car has nearly 83,000 miles on it now & I'm considering upgrading the brakes to the GM Performance front brake kit & potentially buying a set of 1LE Wheels & tires thru a guy up here in the northeast. Cost of these upgrades runs about $3,500 for tbe brake upgrade installed & $2,500 for the wheels & tires. Suspension-wise, I have the non-MRC car.

Should I keep sinking money into this car? at 83,000+ miles & keep tracking her? I already did a catback exhuast which I think sounds killlerrrr

Orrrrrr...

I'm looking at a 2021 17,xxx miles ZL1 (non-1LE) with all the brakes & tires I want + 200hp for low 60k. With trade-in value of the current car of ~$21,000.

Am I crazy for thinking a $40,000 difference might be worth it if I intend to continue tracking this car for at least another few years? (or as long as possible) I also intend to branch out to some bigger tracks around the east coast like Road Atlanta & VIR.

[2SS Capt]

Originally Posted by KindaOrange

Hey folks! Looking for some guidance about the following:

Currently driving a 2018 2SS (non-1LE). Owned for the past 4 years and love this thing, never expected to get so into driving & loving the road, but this car just makes the road so special. Also been tracking the thing in the northeast US for the past few years at NJMP, Summit Point, Watkins Glen, etc...

My question:

The car has nearly 83,000 miles on it now & I'm considering upgrading the brakes to the GM Performance front brake kit & potentially buying a set of 1LE Wheels & tires thru a guy up here in the northeast. Cost of these upgrades runs about $3,500 for tbe brake upgrade installed & $2,500 for the wheels & tires. Suspension-wise, I have the non-MRC car.

Should I keep sinking money into this car? at 83,000+ miles & keep tracking her? I already did a catback exhuast which I think sounds killlerrrr

Orrrrrr...

I'm looking at a 2021 17,xxx miles ZL1 (non-1LE) with all the brakes & tires I want + 200hp for low 60k. With trade-in value of the current car of ~$21,000.

Am I crazy for thinking a $40,000 difference might be worth it if I intend to continue tracking this car for at least another few years? (or as long as possible) I also intend to branch out to some bigger tracks around the east coast like Road Atlanta & VIR.

My thought is $21,000 sounds really low for a 2018 2SS but I don't know the condition... However it is very high mileage so maybe not far off... My thought is, do your research...

[arpad_m]

Trade-in value is on the low side, you should get a bit more if it's clean (but we don't know, heh).

That aside, in your shoes I would switch to the ZL1. As you said, you'll get several upgrades out of the box (including a more potent fuel system), it has +200 crank horsepower, a much lower mileage, and in the end you'll mod that car as well anyway, you might as well start from a stronger base.

[cdrptrks]

I think you're likely to have a major engine issue on the SS within the next few years if you keep tracking it frequently. I'd go for the newest Camaro you can afford so you get the most remaining warranty. Just pay a local Chevy dealership to inspect it to confirm the previous owner didn't void the warranty with modifications or over-rev (if manual transmission) before you buy.

In my opinion, the ZL1 being a few seconds per lap faster isn't worth the extra running costs (around half of the mpg on track) and extra heat everything is exposed to plus higher cost for engine replacement and higher cost of track insurance (plus higher deductible). SS 1LE is the sweet spot and you can put sticky tires on it if you want to go a few seconds per lap faster.

What tires have you been using when you track your SS?

[KindaOrange]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

What tires have you been using when you track your SS?

Appreciate your viewpoint, I've been using the stock GY Eagle Asymmetric 3's. They've held up pretty well & have pretty solid grip. But I know the 1LE setup would be better. Springing for an SS1LE isn't a bad idea either... hmm... would need to find one in Automatic

[Keko]

I would go for a ZL1 but I'm biased, with a SS 1LE being secondary to that. Magride + other goodies that come on SS 1LE and ZL1 will make a significant difference.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by KindaOrange

Also been tracking the thing in the northeast US for the past few years at NJMP, Summit Point, Watkins Glen, etc...

For reference, my best lap at Watkins Glen was 2:07.0 in my SS 1LE 6-speed manual on stock 220tw Goodyear Supercar 3 tires. I suspect I could've gone about 2% faster (around 2:04.5) if I had brought my 100tw Goodyear Supercar 3R tires on ZL1 1LE wheels based on my lap time difference between those tires at other tracks. Since I drove the Camaro over 1,500 miles to get there, I brought a spare set of stock wheels/tires instead.

The best relatively stock ZL1 1LE time I've seen at Watkins Glen is 2:01.6 (about 2.3% faster than my estimated best on the 3R tires). The top ZL1 1LE on the list with a 2:00.8 lap on 3R tires has 125 more horsepower than stock. From watching the 2:01.6 video once, I saw a few corners where more lap time appeared to be available (easy to say from my couch, hard to actually achieve during a full lap with no traffic/mistakes) so for simplicity let's say that cancels out the benefit of the car's intake/exhaust/Pirelli slicks instead of 3Rs (big assumption). There are plenty of possibly different variables between those laps like driver skill, lines used, & weather conditions but just to give you a general idea what to expect for a track you've driven. For a regular ZL1 on the stock 220tw Goodyear Supercar 3 tires I would guess it could do the lap somewhere around 2:04 but I don't have data to back up that guess.

Also, the higher horsepower to weight ratio of the car you bring to a track/HPDE day, the harder it is to get a full lap without encountering traffic that slows you down in a corner and/or puts you off line to pass and hurts your lap time if you care about that. Watkins Glen is one of the longest track layouts in the U.S. (with the boot) but at least there are a good number of straightaways for passing. Time Trials allows more laps without traffic but if you want to be competitive for NASA TT you often have to add front and rear aero and use very sticky tires that wear very quickly and overheat after 1 or 2 fast laps and possibly add ballast weight or tune the engine to make less horsepower to maximize performance within a class. SCCA TT tends to be easier to be competitive with a relatively stock car from what I've heard.

Watkins Glen is my second favorite track (just slightly behind Daytona); you're fortunate to live close to it!

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by KindaOrange

Appreciate your viewpoint, I've been using the stock GY Eagle Asymmetric 3's. They've held up pretty well & have pretty solid grip. But I know the 1LE setup would be better. Springing for an SS1LE isn't a bad idea either... hmm... would need to find one in Automatic

Automatic is faster but also generates more heat so with that in mind, for track use I would highly recommend the SS 1LE instead of the ZL1. I've heard about the ZL1 automatic overheating and shifting early to reduce temperatures while on track especially in the summer (it happened in Misha's Nurburgring review YouTube video of a stock horsepower automatic ZL1 too). I believe some people remove one of the side radiators and replace it with another oil cooler to help combat this issue.

An automatic SS 1LE might be around 1 second per lap faster than a manual at Watkins Glen thanks to more gears allowing for higher average RPMs and getting rid of the overdrive 5th gear on the manual where it falls on its face and barely accelerates after the uphill esses and by reducing the time it takes to shift gears.

[cdrptrks]

You could try the takeoff SS 1LE wheels and tires on your current car. They should get you most of the way to the performance of the SS 1LE but I bet you're sliding around a lot in the seat while cornering if you have the stock non-Recaro seats which makes it difficult to consistently drive at the limit. You might get brake fade and/or fast brake pad wear if still using stock pads with the Supercar 3 tires. Race pads would probably allow you to continue using the stock brake calipers and rotors but might be noisy and/or dangerous if used on the street.

Again, personally I wouldn't trust your current engine to last much longer based on my own experiences and those of other Camaro SS 1LE owners I know who track a lot. But if you do have to rebuild or replace it, you could add intake, headers, exhaust, and E85 flex fuel tune to bump up from about 400rwhp stock to nearly 500rwhp (maybe more with a cam which would also be a good time to remove DOD and upgrade stock lifters which are not known for being the most reliable) without all of the extra heat of the supercharger if you're not worried about having a warranty.

[cdb95z28]

Just buy an SS 1LE since you are digging the track days. Honestly, every track day buddy who had an SS 1LE and upgraded to a ZL1 all said the same.....they didn't have the balls to keep their foot in the throttle the entire length of the straightaways. The SS 1LE will be a better track car. Cheaper maintenance, cheaper consumables.

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

For reference, my best lap at Watkins Glen was 2:07.0 in my SS 1LE 6-speed manual on stock 220tw Goodyear Supercar 3 tires. I suspect I could've gone about 2% faster (around 2:04.5) if I had brought my 100tw Goodyear Supercar 3R tires on ZL1 1LE wheels based on my lap time difference between those tires at other tracks. Since I drove the Camaro over 1,500 miles to get there, I brought a spare set of stock wheels/tires instead.

Wow! Do you have any PDR Youtube videos of your Watkins laps on your SS 1LE OEM setup? I'd like to see that, as my laps (1st time there) were woefully slow and would like to see where I'm leaving the most on the table.

[Msquared]

I agree with the general direction of the advice: the ZL1 (non-1LE) isn't really the ideal track car, and if the ZL1-1LE isn't in the budget then the SS 1LE is where you should look. If you keep your current car, then in addition to brakes and rolling stock I'd probably recommend better shocks, which basically means coilovers and hopefully stiffer springs. Might as well throw in Vorshlag camber plates and SPC rear toe link to get more camber, too. Then you'll have a pretty solid track car...except if your seats aren't Recaro then you'll want a better seat. Pretty soon, you'll have sunk $10k into it, and you still won't have the better cooling (of all fluids) that an SS 1LE comes with stock. With a stock SS 1LE, you can just align it and send it. It even comes on very track-worth tires. With an A10 version, you don't even need to spring for the eLSD recalibration. The ZL1-1LE has all the right parts and seems to be a great track weapon, but it's way more expensive, obviously.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

Wow! Do you have any PDR Youtube videos of your Watkins laps on your SS 1LE OEM setup? I'd like to see that, as my laps (1st time there) were woefully slow and would like to see where I'm leaving the most on the table.

I linked to the video if you click on 2:07.0 in the previous post. There are other videos with fast drivers on different tires not apexing as late as me so don't necessarily take my line as optimal. I didn't have enough time to compare lines in the same session on my one visit. I'd recommend working on a max of 3 specific things to change each session and make the changes gradually. If you try to go for a big time improvement in one session it is an unforgiving track in many places and unfortunately a lot of people crashed while I was there. I had optimal weather conditions too; my time would probably be over a second slower on a hot day and I could see the top speed differences comparing PDR videos between the hot day 2 vs. the cool day 3.

I think the SS has the same cooling as the SS 1LE although idk about the diff. The LT1 trim is missing the 2 smaller auxillary radiators. The MagRide will likely be more comfortable on the street (tour mode) than a set of coilovers with stiff springs which is an important consideration if the car is your daily driver. I'm on the original eLSD calibration and don't have any complaints about it on track. I would get the autocross calibration if I did much autocross but idk if it would be helpful with stock tires on track.

[KindaOrange]

Originally Posted by Msquared

I agree with the general direction of the advice: the ZL1 (non-1LE) isn't really the ideal track car, and if the ZL1-1LE isn't in the budget then the SS 1LE is where you should look.

Appreciate this, think I'll look into an SS1LE, excited for an option easier on the budget also