[90503]

Right now I can get into any of my vehicles, drive 350 miles (LA to Monterey) non-stop and get there in about 5 hours, gas up when I get there (15 minutes) and continue driving to wherever....

Any EVs that can do the same?

[Factorypilot]

Originally Posted by 90503

Right now I can get into any of my vehicles, drive 350 miles (LA to Monterey) non-stop and get there in about 5 hours, gas up when I get there (15 minutes) and continue driving to wherever....

Any EVs that can do the same?

Yes!

*provided you carry 3 tons of extra batteries on your trip

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by TunaMelt

This is simply not true. The advertised range is a combination of driving that you'd expect. Stay at 65 or under and you'll get it. I do 80 both ways to work and average about 28-29 range in my volt with an advertised 35. You know what other car gets worse economy than advertised when going above 65? Every other vehicle I've owned. Around town I've surpassed 50 miles of range during a vacation week. You're correct in saying the slow speed is superior in an EV but to say they're a joke on the highway is false.

Originally Posted by 90503

Isn't the Volt a hybrid?...It recharges as you drive?....Uses a gas engine when the battery is low?...I'm referring to vehicles that are all electric, that need to be recharged/plugged in, and drain very quickly at higher speed making them less practical for long trips.

Yes, but TunaMelt's point is that when he is driving ALL ELECTRIC on the highway, he still gets 28 - 29 miles out of the 35 (38 actually) that was advertised as a mixed use (city and hwy averaged) for the first generation Volt. My wife had a 1st gen and has a 2nd gen now and I agree with everything TunaMelt said. I can get more than 55 miles electric only in the city in my wife's car. On the highway I can get into the 40s, then the gas engine kicks in at 42 mpg. The total cruising range of the car (electric + hybrid mode) is 420 miles.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Yes, but TunaMelt's point is that when he is driving ALL ELECTRIC on the highway, he still gets 28 - 29 miles out of the 35 (38 actually) that was advertised as a mixed use (city and hwy averaged) for the first generation Volt. My wife had a 1st gen and has a 2nd gen now and I agree with everything TunaMelt said. I can get more than 55 miles electric only in the city in my wife's car. On the highway I can get into the 40s, then the gas engine kicks in at 42 mpg. The total cruising range of the car (electric + hybrid mode) is 420 miles.

Thanks for the honest reply that actually includes some electric only miles.

I gotta say though, that 38-40 highway miles and/(or?) 55 city miles on electric only is not very impressive. A 420 mile range, with only 10-20% of that being electric/battery only, is a pretty weak argument for non-fossil fuels, if the other 80-90% of the 420 mile range is dependent on a regular internal combustion engine.

I guess it helps, but not enough to think ICE are anywhere near becoming obsolete. An electric golf-cart is a good fit for several hours on a golf course...

But if the Volt is the best "electric" alternative so far for "replacing" gas engines, V-8 engines, etc., I wouldn't call it a realistic fit or replacement for what we have now.

Sorry, I just don't see the attraction or incentive to go electric.

[TunaMelt]

Makes sense in your situation. Since my work/store/gym commute is less than 35 miles round trip it works out great for me. Last gas station visit was weeks ago. And if I need to go further it's there when I need it. I think the newer models get maybe 60 which would cover the majority of Americans and the numbers will go up with each passing year.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

You can't kill a camaro by going electric. The Camaro is obviously much more than just it's ICE. It's not even the body or it would have been dead when they killed the F-Body already.

It damn near did die, and I strongly doubt that it'd have been revived had its traditional competition been on life support.

All you need for the camaro is for it to be an affordable performance coupe that looks like a camaro. What's under the hood doesn't matter as long as you have a trim that goes fast. That's completely possible with electric. 0-60 times that are fast (like 4 seconds), sure, electric can do that. Good quarter mile times, sure electric can do that too.

It needs more than that. Cars are about much more than just brief measurements of acceleration.

So cling to yesteryear's technology. You'll be breathing in the burnt rubber of your electric replacements with your hardon for exhaust notes while they're crushed into their seats beating you down the track (or to the next red light). I'll take going fast and all the benefits of an electric drivetrain over exhaust noise any day.

I'm not one for loud exhausts, but I sure don't want to have to choose between driving where the powertrain is either dead-silent or where only the natural hum/whine of an electric motor sneaks through. Don't even think about piping in some synthesized ICE engine sounds in an attempt to fool me.

You can keep your electric straight line hero, won't bother me a bit even if it's me/my car that you run away from. I'll take the ICE car that fits the way I want to drive, where the fun to drive factor involves so much more than mashing an accelerator pedal. Same way I've always bought my cars.

And if GM is planning on build an electric hero with my name on it, you can have that one, too.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

You haven't seen videos of people in tesla's in ludicrous mode.

Way more adrenaline pumping than loud noise

If that is true, then that is a fear response, and those people are by definition driving beyond what their skill set can reliably support.

I don't have much adrenalin going at any time I'm driving, not even when I'm pushing my car at a track day and I get the tail a little loose in the wet. Most of the time I actually find driving on the track to be nearly as relaxing as a drive in the country even though I'm at substantially higher speeds and g's. I can honestly imagine trying 'ludicrous mode' out a handful of times, and filing it away in the 'been there, done that' drawer.

There's a grocery list of of benefits under electric and a grocery list of negatives under ICE that wont ever go away. Just accept it and adapt. You'll have more fun.

You're conveniently overlooking the fun aspects of driving an ICE vehicle (especially those with a certain powertrain configuration that's unlikely to ever show up in an EV). You're assuming way too much if you expect that everybody is going to have more fun driving an EV.


Norm

[Dave66]

The only requirement is the new Camaro has to haul ass. It doesn't matter if it's electric. I'm reminded of this, which car is out in front beating every other car? A Tesla. If a new electric Camaro could haul ass like that then ?


Look at the Bolt's times compared to the old favorites, surprised? http://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle...-60-mph-times/

[Dave66]

Haha Yeah. Torque rules and electrics have the torque.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

You haven't seen videos of people in tesla's in ludicrous mode.

Way more adrenaline pumping than loud noise (though maybe not as much as loud noise + extreme acceleration....but then most would find that loud noise to be annoying and not something you want to hear often). While speed in itself doesn't push the adrenaline out necessarily, acceleration does. As the human brain associates loud noise as something old and outdated and negative, I think the connection to adrenaline will dissipate (unless it's unexpected and then the adrenaline is a fear response, rather than excitement). ......

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

If that is true, then that is a fear response, and those people are by definition driving beyond what their skill set can reliably support.

I don't have much adrenalin going at any time I'm driving, not even when I'm pushing my car at a track day and I get the tail a little loose in the wet. Most of the time I actually find driving on the track to be nearly as relaxing as a drive in the country even though I'm at substantially higher speeds and g's. I can honestly imagine trying 'ludicrous mode' out a handful of times, and filing it away in the 'been there, done that' drawer.

I'll chime in as one who has driven a Tesla S P90D in ludicrous mode. On a closed track (Black Lake at GM Milford Proving Grounds), so no restrictions and no concerns about hitting anything other than a few pylons here and there. Definitely wasn't fear. I don't think I grin when I'm scared.

Pretty much as fun as you can have on four wheels. Right up there with the Z06, Porsche 911, Ferrari (the one before 488...428?), Lambo Aventador, McLaren MP4 12C, and R8 that I got to drive on Black Lake that same couple of days. All were a thrill a minute. The Tesla was wicked fast. Instant max torque has to be experienced to understand. Tested as the fastest car there for the event. The handling was different and very interesting. Zero body roll. Minimal tire squeal. I'm certain that the lack of body roll was because with batteries being in the floor of the vehicle, the center of gravity was very very low. It was among the easiest to get through the slalom course but others were more fun to get through the slalom. Not sure if that makes sense, but that's just my subjective view.

I got to take the Tesla home for a few days, since I was the only one on the project that had a charge station at home (wife's Volt). Got to play with it in the real world. Also got to play around with "Auto Pilot". One could make a case for "fear" with that, but that's a whole 'nother subject.

In the vein of "pictures or it didn't happen" here's the Tesla next to my wife's Volt.

[USAFS197]

Something about this argument reminds me of how people reacted to the introduction of fuel injection versus carburetion. You'll get all those smug people who raise their nose up and insist that they're better off with carbs and how this change is stupid and how they'll continue to only buy carbureted vehicles because 'murica and I don't like change, because change is bad.

Again, take a hard look at the technology industry and see how much that has progressed over the years. Do you seriously think that we can't develop better batteries, quicker charging or longer ranges if we poured money into the research and development? Who would have thought that we would be driving 6.2L, 455hp V8's getting around 30mpg (driving conditions/driver withstanding) if you were to rewind the clock 20 years?

[fastball]

Originally Posted by USAFS197

Something about this argument reminds me of how people reacted to the introduction of fuel injection versus carburetion. You'll get all those smug people who raise their nose up and insist that they're better off with carbs and how this change is stupid and how they'll continue to only buy carbureted vehicles because 'murica and I don't like change, because change is bad.

I don't think it's like that at all. Most enthusiasts understood fuel injection's potential and the instant power boost over carburetors, ease of maintenance, and it's ability to provide an easy, perfect start every time even on a cold engine sitting out in a blizzard.

[Raven87]

I think it is not surprising at all that people have favorite technologies and are very resistant to any sort of change that they perceive as a threat to what they like/want or have.

Remember the furor on the Vette forums about changing something as simple tail light shapes? And now about the mid-engine model?

I get it though.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by USAFS197

Something about this argument reminds me of how people reacted to the introduction of fuel injection versus carburetion.

The fact that there's adverse reaction may be the same, but it's a much bigger step going from fuel injection to electric than it was when we went from carburetion to fuel injection.

Who would have thought that we would be driving 6.2L, 455hp V8's getting around 30mpg (driving conditions/driver withstanding) if you were to rewind the clock 20 years?

I might not have expected quite that much improvement, but back about those 20 years I was actually in the process of swapping an aftermarket multiport EFI system into a car that was originally carbureted (and had been through a couple of carb-based upgrades in the meantime).

Again, take a hard look at the technology industry and see how much that has progressed over the years. Do you seriously think that we can't develop better batteries, quicker charging or longer ranges if we poured money into the research and development?

All the technology that you can even imagine isn't going to make an EV as much fun or as satisfying to drive as a reasonably quick ICE-powered car with a manual transmission. There's a human element involved with that, for which there is no technological substitute unless one thinks the day will come where your individual internal thoughts and opinions will be forcibly managed from the outside (potentially by others).


Norm