[cleoent]

Everyone keeps telling me I'm missing the point of the car, and the transmission. That's not true at all. I think you guys/gals are missing my point.

If the idea behind spending a gillion dollars on the development on the A10 was for performance, it was wasted. Transmissions exist today that are VERY good for performance. The A10 is not going to be a better transmission than a modern dual clutch. At best, it may be as good. If it's as good, what was the point?

That's my point. No one needs to continue to tell me I'm missing the point of the car.

[Sven59]

It is a multi purpose transmission, in the ZL1 it's purpose is performance.

[ron scubadiver]

Originally Posted by cleoent

If the idea behind spending a gillion dollars on the development on the A10 was for performance, it was wasted. Transmissions exist today that are VERY good for performance. The A10 is not going to be a better transmission than a modern dual clutch. At best, it may be as good. If it's as good, what was the point?

The three extra gears of the A10 give it significantly lower fuel consumption on the freeway. In this over regulated world that can be the difference between building the car and not.

Low speed drivability of DCT's is not good. Believe me, I had a few in BMW's. That may not be a factor for track use, but it does get annoying.

[KLR ZL1]

Originally Posted by Sven59

It is a multi purpose transmission, in the ZL1 it's purpose is performance.

This. And he still doesn't get it. He's only thinking one vehicle. GM is thinking multiple lines which makes the tranny cheaper too.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by cleoent

Everyone keeps telling me I'm missing the point of the car, and the transmission. That's not true at all. I think you guys/gals are missing my point.

If the idea behind spending a gillion dollars on the development on the A10 was for performance, it was wasted. Transmissions exist today that are VERY good for performance. The A10 is not going to be a better transmission than a modern dual clutch. At best, it may be as good. If it's as good, what was the point?

That's my point. No one needs to continue to tell me I'm missing the point of the car.

Perhaps your not missing the point...but you don't know what that transmission is about, any more than we do. Claiming it's the same or worse than existing transmissions is a bit closed-minded and naive.

As has been said - many DCTs have their own share of issues. Besides that, none of them feature this many gears, at a cost that is consistent with a Chevrolet product...and frankly...GM hasn't build on of their own before. Sticking to their strengths in TC-style automatic transmissions provides them an opportunity to excel rather than just achieve.

Building and engineering the A10 in-house...means they can modify and calibrate the thing exactly how they need it to be, rather than work within the confines of another company's design.

[Artos]

I still say he's missing the whole point...this A10 is going to be in thousands of vehicles. What it does in the ZL1 is special simply due to it converting die hard manual drivers over to the speed / technology & simply driving faster on the track. If you don't get that?? You have missed the point!!

[Michigan1LTRS]

Do you guys think he is missing the point?

[datboi448]

Originally Posted by cleoent

Everyone keeps telling me I'm missing the point of the car, and the transmission. That's not true at all. I think you guys/gals are missing my point.

If the idea behind spending a gillion dollars on the development on the A10 was for performance, it was wasted. Transmissions exist today that are VERY good for performance. The A10 is not going to be a better transmission than a modern dual clutch. At best, it may be as good. If it's as good, what was the point?

That's my point. No one needs to continue to tell me I'm missing the point of the car.

your thinking of it as a single purpose piece of hardware, it can be tuned differently for different applications, the engineers at gm decided to give the zl1 a tune that was not focused on gas economy. it will be the main transmission for all vehicles in both gm and ford vehicles in performance and practical applications for at least the next decade

if you want something with bettter fuel economy then go void your warranty as soon as you get it

[jasonz28camaro]

Originally Posted by Nitro66215

Maybe they figure they rape you enough on the price in the Caddy

It's that extra 10hp the camaro has. The V is only like 15K more.

[BOWTIEBOB]

Originally Posted by Hyperblue16vert

The destination charge and GG tax are included..... but the GG tax is reduced by employee pricing.... which is not going to happen, I believe, because it is a tax......

To: Hyperblue 16 Vert.
Re: GM Employee GG Tax

I checked pricing revisions for the Camaro on the employee site. As of 01/05/17 the Gas Guzzler Tax for the A10 ZL1 was revised from an estimate of T.B.D. $1700 to actual $2100 MSRP. To address the reduction question, it is $1834.56 for employee price.

When I purchased my Gen5 ZL1 the MSRP was $2600 for the A6 and I paid $2717 for the employee pricing. I tried to get and explanation why I paid more but no one could provide an explanation. I hope the ZL1 is still eligible when I take delivery of my '17 ZL1 Coupe GD1, M5U, IO6, UQT, CF5, CFW. What would be really nice is if I could drum up $1000- $2000 in loyalty cash and apply that to the purchase too. I guess I should be thankful for what I have. I am.

[HyperBlueX2]

Originally Posted by BOWTIEBOB

To: Hyperblue 16 Vert.
Re: GM Employee GG Tax

I checked pricing revisions for the Camaro on the employee site. As of 01/05/17 the Gas Guzzler Tax for the A10 ZL1 was revised from an estimate of T.B.D. $1700 to actual $2100 MSRP. To address the reduction question, it is $1834.56 for employee price.

When I purchased my Gen5 ZL1 the MSRP was $2600 for the A6 and I paid $2717 for the employee pricing. I tried to get and explanation why I paid more but no one could provide an explanation. I hope the ZL1 is still eligible when I take delivery of my '17 ZL1 Coupe GD1, M5U, IO6, UQT, CF5, CFW. What would be really nice is if I could drum up $1000- $2000 in loyalty cash and apply that to the purchase too. I guess I should be thankful for what I have. I am.

My employee pricing before, when the GG was $1,300, showed $67,220.00 MSRP down to $62,133.64

Now with the $2,100 GG it is $68,020.00 MSRP down to $62,924.68.

A $791.04 difference for a $800 increase in the GG Tax.

The online employee pricing reduces the tax because the site incorporates it into the MSRP. Actually I believe it will be full price, but I have seen on some orders where it is larger for employee pricing, like you stated. I hope this is not the case.... we will see when I get invoiced.

[BOWTIEBOB]

Originally Posted by cleoent

Everyone keeps telling me I'm missing the point of the car, and the transmission. That's not true at all. I think you guys/gals are missing my point.

If the idea behind spending a gillion dollars on the development on the A10 was for performance, it was wasted. Transmissions exist today that are VERY good for performance. The A10 is not going to be a better transmission than a modern dual clutch. At best, it may be as good. If it's as good, what was the point?

That's my point. No one needs to continue to tell me I'm missing the point of the car.

Most of this discussion is opinion.......and you know what "they" say about that.

The transmission A10 (RPO: MXO) was not exclusively developed for performance. I am assuming you mean "go fast" or speed performance like racing.This transmission was jointly developed by Ford and GM, with Ford having taken the lead in development for various applications. It was developed with several versions,gearing and programming of TCM's to be installed in numerous models of cars, SUV's and trucks for Ford and GM. GM plans to utilize the A10 in 18 different models by 2018.

One thing I have found by being a member of several forums is that it serves a person well to develop a little thicker skin. I don't think any one is attacking your knowledge, understanding or deductive reasoning. Sometimes the posting member fails to effectively communicate their point. Sometimes the responder just did not understand the point. I take these exchanges as positive interaction with all members having the common purpose to impart their knowledge and experience as it relates to the subject vehicles or technical issues. Start saving a nickel for every time you feel slighted.Soon you might just have enough money to buy and extra mod for your car. I know I have learned more about these cars by participating or reading in these forums than I did in my any preceding time.

[big dave]

I think it is a little disappointing that the new ZL1 isn't getting better mileage, but I don't think the trans is the problem. The way I see it, even if it had 15 gears, the mileage won't be any different than another transmission with 8 gears if the final drive ratio is the same. Yes, the performance would be better because of its ability to keep the motor in its power band.

I'm still curious why cylinder deactivation wasn't used on the Camaro but is used in the Vette.

Also, not trying to start something here but, why does the hellcat get better mileage while making a lot more power and also weighing significantly more?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by big dave

Also, not trying to start something here but, why does the hellcat get better mileage while making a lot more power and also weighing significantly more?

It only gets better in highway mileage...and that by 1 mpg. It actually gets lower city fuel economy.

A guess?

Less sticky tires, less aero resistance, super-tall highway gear.