[SCullen]

That should buff right out.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by gosutag

I've always wondered how to brake properly in place of ABS?

It's been demonstrated many times that you can't out brake ABS. I think a true professional can do it but most of us folks that don't have to brake a car going into a corner for a living can't.

Besides, if you are on a public road and it's not wet/slippery/snowing/freezing and you get into the ABS, you are probably driving beyond way beyond what you should be.

[GTIanZ28]

Originally Posted by EFI Tuning

Nannies are great but you really should be aware of what it feels like for it to break loose and know when to remove your foot off of the pedal.

And know when to keep your foot in the pedal! Think this is the hardest lesson to learn for almost everyone!

Completely agree about learning to drive without nannies. I will state up front that I'm a "good" but far from great driver (20+ years no accidents). I don't know how to drift. I've never done track days or hit the drag strip. I do know how to leave a cars and coffee. I also know how to drive in the snow and how to handle a hydroplaining car.

In both those last situations I don't think any nannies will save you. It's up to the driver to control the car and to react properly.

[jdasnt3]

Sorry to hear about your car. Glad everyone is OK and you didn't hit another vehicle or person. We all make mistakes, it's what we do afterwards that helps us from repeating history.

[MiamiBlueCamaro]

Originally Posted by Koomie

Last night with no one around me, I was heading home and thought I would have some fun on a roundabout so I turned Traction and Stability control off.
BAD IDEA if you don't know the cars limit. Went into a drift and ended up scraping the nose against some concrete with a less than 5 mph crash into the concrete.

Mistakes happen, I just wanted to warn other Camaro drivers against turning these safety features off if you want to have a little extra fun with the car.

My Camaro is 2 months old and will be in the body shop this week. Luckily I have zero engine or frame damage.

Totally disagree with you in this one here, this is a V6 and you "were having a little fun". Is my car and if i want to turn "off" all the nannies is my choice.

[alexandre_baril]

I found nannies on the Gen6 SS to be so well implemented, yes you feel it, but it is not invasive as it can be on other car. I keep it on most of the time, especially when driving normally. Not having to be "100% focus on the car and the driving" all the time, especially on long driving session is great. I remember one night, was driving for 6 hours and decided to pass a couple of cars that was in my way. Rear wheels left the ground because of bumpy road. Traction control instantly get the car back in control. The car still moved almost 1 feet to the left in this fraction of second.

On the other hand, I agree that trying the car with no nannies time to time is very nice and you can feel the raw power of the car, but removing nannies all the time is just silly. It reminds me old timers refusing to use the safety belt, because they are real man hahaha.

[COmaro]

Anyone who lives in an area that gets snow, the next time you get enough to slide around, you really should find an empty parking lot, turn everything off, and learn how to counter steer a slide. I grew up in snow country driving crappy RWD cars with bald tires and no electronics at all, and back then, you either learned how to slide or spent a lot of money on repairs. I even made it through a terrible winter in a 4-speed '77 Trans Am with worn down 60 series Goodrich Radial T/As. There were times I literally had to go down the road at a 45 degree angle because the rear tires were constantly spinning and the positrac would send you sideways. It was kind of like all drift, all of the time. Over the years, the skills I learned back then have saved me more times than I can count.

As for the OP, and anyone else with a car with aggressive tires, even tires that are not labelled "Summer Only" will harden when they are cold, unless they are actual snow tires. Snow tires are not just a tread pattern, the rubber compound is way different. Bridgestone Blizzaks are the perfect example, they stick to just about any condition, but it is because of rubber compound and the molding technique, not because they have a deep tread.

Even many tires labelled "All Season" will suck when cold, and if you do drive "Summer Only" tires and the temp drops below 40 degrees, you are in for a huge surprise, and not in a good way.

[KMPrenger]

Glad you are OK and didn't get hurt!

In cold weather, I don't think I have the guts to turn off TC and stand on the gas in this car unless I'm all by myself, on a straight road, or better yet...a huge open parking lot. lol. (I'm afraid even on a straight road the damn thing would kick out and swing left or right on me!).

Then again...I don't think I'd just stand on the gas either unless I'm trying to do some massive burn out or something.

This morning I was heading to work and decided to punch it pretty good (not full throttle) on a straight away. Temps in the 30s or low 40s and I was traveling at 45mph. I kick it down and the next thing I know is the traction control indicator lights are flashing at me. I can only assume this means the car sensed that it lost traction and the nannies kicked in.

I can only imagine what might've happened if I didn't have TC on.

[CAM-FIFTY]

Originally Posted by COmaro

Anyone who lives in an area that gets snow, the next time you get enough to slide around, you really should find an empty parking lot, turn everything off, and learn how to counter steer a slide. I grew up in snow country driving crappy RWD cars with bald tires and no electronics at all, and back then, you either learned how to slide or spent a lot of money on repairs. I even made it through a terrible winter in a 4-speed '77 Trans Am with worn down 60 series Goodrich Radial T/As. There were times I literally had to go down the road at a 45 degree angle because the rear tires were constantly spinning and the positrac would send you sideways. It was kind of like all drift, all of the time. Over the years, the skills I learned back then have saved me more times than I can count.

As for the OP, and anyone else with a car with aggressive tires, even tires that are not labelled "Summer Only" will harden when they are cold, unless they are actual snow tires. Snow tires are not just a tread pattern, the rubber compound is way different. Bridgestone Blizzaks are the perfect example, they stick to just about any condition, but it is because of rubber compound and the molding technique, not because they have a deep tread.

Even many tires labelled "All Season" will suck when cold, and if you do drive "Summer Only" tires and the temp drops below 40 degrees, you are in for a huge surprise, and not in a good way.

Can you help me understand (seriously, as I'm novice to it) how turning traction and stability control off and learning how to slide is a 'needed' or 'necessary' skill? I understand 'back in time' when car technologies were not as advanced as they are now and you needed to learn counter actions if you slide in bad weather. But with the better winter tires and better stability control technologies integrated into the cars, whats the point now?

[slick3]

Originally Posted by CAM-FIFTY

Can you help me understand (seriously, as I'm novice to it) how turning traction and stability control off and learning how to slide is a 'needed' or 'necessary' skill? I understand 'back in time' when car technologies were not as advanced as they are now and you needed to learn counter actions if you slide in bad weather. But with the better winter tires and better stability control technologies integrated into the cars, whats the point now?

Its called car control, its always a good skill to have. Some ass hole pulls out in front of you and you have to jerk the wheel and get a little sideways, it could save your life.

Glad the only thing hurt was your pride OP

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by CAM-FIFTY

Can you help me understand (seriously, as I'm novice to it) how turning traction and stability control off and learning how to slide is a 'needed' or 'necessary' skill? I understand 'back in time' when car technologies were not as advanced as they are now and you needed to learn counter actions if you slide in bad weather. But with the better winter tires and better stability control technologies integrated into the cars, whats the point now?

Originally Posted by slick3

Its called car control, its always a good skill to have. Some ass holes poles out front of you and you have to jerk the wheel and get a little sideways, it could save your life.

Glad the only thing hurt was your pride OP

Having done this myself...(in snow)...I think you've both got a point.

The intent should be (imo) NOT to get into a slide in the first place, or loose control in any way.

But if you do...even with good winter tires, and traction control it's possible...it's important to know how to recover. Stabilitrac's Forté is preventing a loss of control, not recovering once it happens.

True story...A couple of years back, I swapped the summer tires off of my car for the winter set. I checked the tread, and everything was in order. About a week of cold temperatures and freezing rain went by...then it warmed back up to the 60s...for a month or more. I wasn't about to swap the tires again, since they were all cleaned and put away, plus the weather was being unpredictable.

Finally, we got snow. I had to travel about 25 miles to my parents house for something, and I couldn't place a finger on what exactly felt off about the car: something just wasn't right. A little bit of sliding from the rear - never happened before.

About a mile away from my destination, there's a weird banked turn that I have to drive "up" in order to turn onto their road. I made my turn...and the wheels started spinning, and I started sliding backwards "down" the banked turn, headed right for a ditch on the low side. Apparently, the whole thing was ice...or at least most of it.

I tried stopping, and slowing easing my way up...but it wasn't working...and at this point, I was impeding traffic...I could see some idiot blindly t-boning me.

So I tried to spin the tires again...the car wasn't sliding as much if I accelerated and spun the wheels faster, so I quickly shifted to second mid wheel-spin...and basically "did a burnout" for the duration of the hill. Counter-steering as best I could to make sure I didn't slide sideways and ruin what I was attempting to do.

Turns out, in those warm temperatures for the month or so after I put the tires on...the winter tread got roasted...the tires were nearly bald in the middle of the tread.

Moral is....had I never done a burnout before...or slid a bit sideways, and learned to counter steer...My car may have ended up in that ditch...Traction Control and my winter tires weren't going to help me.

[16Panther]

You hit some kind of an obstacle in Montana? I didn't know they had those.

[Nor Cal ZL1]

The biggest problem here is screwing around on cold tires. Regular street driving does not get tires up to temp, esp when its cold outside and your on summer tires. Even summer tires when taken to the track need a couple of laps to come up to optimum temp.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Koomie

Last night with no one around me, I was heading home and thought I would have some fun on a roundabout so I turned Traction and Stability control off.
BAD IDEA if you don't know the cars limit. Went into a drift and ended up scraping the nose against some concrete with a less than 5 mph crash into the concrete.

Mistakes happen, I just wanted to warn other Camaro drivers against turning these safety features off if you want to have a little extra fun with the car.

Sorry to hear about your incident.

What really needs to be done first is to put every idea of having "a little extra fun" on hold until spring time and warmer weather.

You can't assume that the nannies would have prevented all damage, or even any of it, if tire grip conditions were "just so". While they can usually do a better job than most drivers most of the time, they are not infinitely capable and should not be viewed as such.

Ease up on the driving enthusiasm, people. Seriously. Trusting only in the nannies to save your butt is to stick your head in the sand.


Norm