[Indydriver]

Originally Posted by GroundhogSS

My '06 G35 Coupe is going to be replaced with a new SS soon. Waiting for the cost numbers for the convertible before making a final decision.

Definitely get the vert. Must haves=V8, MRC, NPP, M6 w/short shift kit. You will have a car you'll want to keep the rest of your life.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by dragonZ28

All the hate for the 4th gens is humorous. Did they sell as well as the Mustang? No. Did they make the Mustang look stupid performance wise? Absolutely.

Say what you will about sales; I don't care. I don't buy a car because it sells well. I buy a car because it speaks to me on my level; performance, price, and appearance. A tastefully dressed 4th gen SS, or WS6 looks sick.

Also, let's not forget that those cars ruled the streets of America with the racing crowd. The LS1 was simply way ahead of the competition and it was extremely affodable in an F-Body. Those cars were common 11 second running cars in 1999 with bolt-ons. Now, if you do a heads and cam upgrade those things were rockets. The same could not be accomplished with the Mustang. The whole platform was never built for performance.

+1. Well said and 100% true.

Originally Posted by ilirg

4th gens did not sell because they were hideous and had a crappy entry level engine, plain and simple. The 6th gen suffers none of these ailments and will sell just fine despite its visibility issues and lack of trunk space, just like the 5th gen.

Not true really, they sold very well at first. They just kept them around too long with not really updating them. Especially the interior, which, like the 5th gen was pretty terrible. But it was the times as well, average priced, (high end stuff still sold well) coupes in general weren't selling around that time as middle class people were in the stupid SUV craze. Just look at all the average priced coupes that went off the market at that time.

Heck, I still think a 4th gen Camaro SS is a good looking car. I had a '97 SS and a '00 SS and I liked them both much more then my '10 SS. Even though I had one, I just never got on board with the 5th gen to be quite honest. The 6th gen looks like a huge home run though...

Originally Posted by Indydriver

Funny how the OEMs choose a claimed power output based on marketing considerations. It seems apparent that the Camaro LT1 is the exact same engine supplied to Corvette with only plumbing differences creating performance separation (if any). GM couldn't bring itself to claim the same output so they decided to say 5 hp less.

Hot Rod dyno'd a new Camaro at 405/405 which indicates an 11% driveline loss. Yeah, right. They said,

"The LT1 and six-speed put as much horsepower to the ground as the LT1 Stingray we tested previously...".

The LT1 in the Corvette and Camaro are both the same and have the same 455 hp rating. The Corvette can get an extra 5 with the optional exhaust.

[Curr]

Originally Posted by Indydriver

Definitely get the vert. Must haves=V8, MRC, NPP, M6 w/short shift kit. You will have a car you'll want to keep the rest of your life.

I'd agree about everything 'cept having to have a manual. Depends where you're at in life, and what you want.

I'm getting A8 just because in 10 years I expect my bum knees will be worse, and Wifey is more comfy driving an auto. I want to keep this car until it rots, and I suspect the auto is just a better choice for us.

[BahamaTodd]

Originally Posted by Suntan

Well, now that I've finally read all the reviews, it seems that the C6 has basically fulfilled/exceeded all the performance expectations we've had for it! Way to go Chevy!!!

The only question that I still have really is about the interior quality aspects of the new Camaro. The reviews are kind of ambiguous here - some reviewers talk about "cheap plastic" on the door panels while others talk about soft-touch textured materials. I think everyone agrees that it's an improvement over the C5, but some reviewers I've read say that the Mustang has a higher quality interior (I've seen the new Mustang; the interior quality really isn't that great - except for the special trim models, the door panels are made of hard plastic!).

Does anyone have a sense of what the interior is like materials-wise? Is there a substantial difference between the 1LT/1SS and 2LT/2SS models (aside from the leather and the additional tech, of course)?

Its a mix. They have soft touch materials where passengers are most likely to come in contact with. Arm rests, the front of the dash, etc.

The hard plastics are at the top of, and under the dash, and anything not colored red on the door in the photo.. People like to hang their arms out the window when they drive, so there were some complaints that the triangular panel should have also been soft touch. However with the high doors of the Camaro I don't see how that would be comfortable.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Suntan

Well, now that I've finally read all the reviews, it seems that the C6 has basically fulfilled/exceeded all the performance expectations we've had for it! Way to go Chevy!!!

The only question that I still have really is about the interior quality aspects of the new Camaro. The reviews are kind of ambiguous here - some reviewers talk about "cheap plastic" on the door panels while others talk about soft-touch textured materials. I think everyone agrees that it's an improvement over the C5, but some reviewers I've read say that the Mustang has a higher quality interior (I've seen the new Mustang; the interior quality really isn't that great - except for the special trim models, the door panels are made of hard plastic!).

Does anyone have a sense of what the interior is like materials-wise? Is there a substantial difference between the 1LT/1SS and 2LT/2SS models (aside from the leather and the additional tech, of course)?

Please don't call it the C6.

Gen 6= Camaro

C6= 6th Gen Corvette

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by BahamaTodd

Challenger can keep going because its based on the Charger/300 which sell in good volumes.

Based on ATS and CTS sales, they need the Camaro to keep the Alpha platform's head above the water.

The Charger/Challenger sell in good volume...to fleet companies at minimal profit. The Alpha platform earns far more profit per vehicle than Sigma II ever did. Sales may be down 1.7% YTD but profits are very good. The 6th gen Camaro riding on Alpha is a win-win. Camaro get's a world-class chassis, GM gets higher return on development and aftermarket support swells for all involved.

[2000Firehawk]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ummmmm no. If it were selling we would have had a Camaro. I will restate my tale of walking into a conference room many years ago and seeing tape drawings of the NG F-body......and also a very cool Cadillac sedan planned for the same architecture. The CTS lived and the Camaro/Firebird did not because of sales. I know of what I speak. Sorry, but in this case I am correct.

Getting a F-car that met crash requirements was only a decision away from reality.

This:
Search for user fbodfather on the camaro5 forums. He is Scott Settlemeyer, who has been a GM Camaro/Firebird team member for almost 30 years. He was an integral part of the development of the 4th gen. He even said that the F body was impossible to meet new 2003 impact standards without so much re-engineering for 2003, that it would have essentially been an entirely new platform and cost hundreds of millions of dollars to retool the St. Theresse plant.

So, the GEN4 would've continued on for a few more years, if it wasn't for the new 2003 crash standards...

[HuJass]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I will restate my tale of walking into a conference room many years ago and seeing tape drawings of the NG F-body

What year was this?
What did it look like?

[SpeedIsLife]

So why wasn't the money invested? Because it wasn't selling.

People are desperate to defend the entire Camaro nameplate that now some are spinning the death of the 4th Gen as "not really being a failure"

Was the 4th Gen a failure all together? Absolutely not. It was very successful early.

Was the 4th Gen a failure at the end? Also absolutely. The sales failure of the 4th Gen at the trailing end resulted in the termination/suspension of the Camaro program. Thankfully it was resuscitated successfully and we have the Camaro back.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

So why wasn't the money invested? Because it wasn't selling.

People are desperate to defend the entire Camaro nameplate that now some are spinning the death of the 4th Gen as "not really being a failure"

Was the 4th Gen a failure all together? Absolutely not. It was very successful early.

Was the 4th Gen a failure at the end? Also absolutely. The sales failure of the 4th Gen at the trailing end resulted in the termination/suspension of the Camaro program. Thankfully it was resuscitated successfully and we have the Camaro back.

Exactly. Like Number 3 said, there were plans. But the dismal sales meant no new development was given the green light and when the safety standards rolled out for '03, the F-body died. I think the last few years over 60% of sales were V8s. The writing was on the wall.

[DevonK]

Back to the reviews for a moment - rereading a few of them and recalling others, one thing that struck me was that most of them don't provide any subjective feedback about the driving experience (Top Gear is an exception here). They offer next to no insight as to whether or not the car has a good "fun to drive" or "grins per mile" quotient.

The notable absence of such feedback is not particularly encouraging. Contrast that with say the initial reviews of the new MX-5, in which most reviewers went on at some length about how much fun the car was to drive.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by DevonK

Back to the reviews for a moment - rereading a few of them and recalling others, one thing that struck me was that most of them don't provide any subjective feedback about the driving experience (Top Gear is an exception here). They offer next to no insight as to whether or not the car has a good "fun to drive" or "grins per mile" quotient.

The notable absence of such feedback is not particularly encouraging. Contrast that with say the initial reviews of the new MX-5, in which most reviewers went on at some length about how much fun the car was to drive.

When a car lacks crazy performance, people talk about fun to drive. How many reviews talk about a ZO6, Viper, Ferrari being fun to drive. They all are but reviewers don't write about it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by 2000Firehawk

This:
Search for user fbodfather on the camaro5 forums. He is Scott Settlemeyer, who has been a GM Camaro/Firebird team member for almost 30 years. He was an integral part of the development of the 4th gen. He even said that the F body was impossible to meet new 2003 impact standards without so much re-engineering for 2003, that it would have essentially been an entirely new platform and cost hundreds of millions of dollars to retool the St. Theresse plant.

So, the GEN4 would've continued on for a few more years, if it wasn't for the new 2003 crash standards...

Also remember at that time GM was not being run by "Car Guys" as much as they were the "Bean Counters".
I think its pretty much the opposite today.

[newb]

Originally Posted by 2000Firehawk

This:
Search for user fbodfather on the camaro5 forums. He is Scott Settlemeyer, who has been a GM Camaro/Firebird team member for almost 30 years. He was an integral part of the development of the 4th gen. He even said that the F body was impossible to meet new 2003 impact standards without so much re-engineering for 2003, that it would have essentially been an entirely new platform and cost hundreds of millions of dollars to retool the St. Theresse plant.

So, the GEN4 would've continued on for a few more years, if it wasn't for the new 2003 crash standards...

When you say continued on, I assume you mean unchanged or minor tweaks. That would have done nothing to keep the car alive. It would have been prolonging the inevitable. With poor sales, there was no R&D money put towards the car. No R&D would have killed it eventually anyway. Or turned out a POS that would have killed the name for good. I think that would have been wore than the lapse in production. Anyone remember the 80s Nova? Talk about killing a name.