[Chevy71]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

Thanks for that info. I have run the test you described several times and if I shift with the accelerator pedal at 6000 RPM, as soon as I push the clutch in the engine speed will jump to 6500 RPM and stay there.

So if you shift at 6000 RPM it will stay there (or only raise to something like 6100 RPM)? If so, could you post a video? I would really like to understand why it doesn't appear to be working on my car.

Follow-up questions: How did you determine the car needed to be in Track Mode? How did you determine the clutch needed to be fully pressed to even engage vs. pushed in but clutch pedal not to the floor?

I have done it several times now, and I do it every time I race the car. I asked my tuner to tell me if it was on because I was having issues making it work and he was the one who told me those were the needed parameters for it to engage. I was trying it in sport mode before not realizing it doesn't work on my car in sport mode. I can certainly try to get a video for you. My go pro skills aren't very good though lol! Last time I did a speedo video the camera fell out! Haha

[Chevy71]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

Here's more info on this subject, specifically for the '14 and later M7 Corvettes. This is directly from Tadge Juechter. My assumption is that the 6th gen Camaro's system works similarly. The response lacking details on my specific questions though regarding what engine speed the algorithm holds it at:

Tadge answered:
No Lift Shift (NLS) works in all driver modes and with rev match on or off. In other words, all the time. Many manufacturers seek to reduce the stress in their drivelines by sensing the conditions for a power shift and close the throttle regardless of what the driver is doing with the throttle pedal. The problem with closing the throttle is that when the next gear is selected and the clutch is re-engaged, the intake manifold has very low pressure. The throttle then has to re-open to fill it and feed the cylinders. Although this all happens very quickly, there is a delay for the engine to back up to full torque (and these effects are magnified in charged engines where intake manifold pressures are higher). Although I can't share the calibration details, the NLS algorithm looks for the conditions where the driver is requesting maximum performance and, within certain bounds, keeps the throttle fully open during the shift to keep the manifold pressure relatively high. In this way the engine is ready to provide full torque upon completion of the shift. The performance difference is easily measured in our straight line acceleration testing. And of course the Corvette is designed for and fully validated for this usage.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...hift-work.html

Maybe for the vette it works in all modes, but I can promise you in my mapmfrom GM it showed to only,work in track mode and that feature could not be changed by my tuner using HP Tuners. He was able to change the needed throttle percentage to activate it though

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by Chevy71

I have done it several times now, and I do it every time I race the car. I asked my tuner to tell me if it was on because I was having issues making it work and he was the one who told me those were the needed parameters for it to engage. I was trying it in sport mode before not realizing it doesn't work on my car in sport mode. I can certainly try to get a video for you. My go pro skills aren't very good though lol! Last time I did a speedo video the camera fell out! Haha

Thanks for the quick response. I would definitely appreciate a video of an SS (non-1LE) that shows when you press the clutch at 6000rpm that the engine speed stays there (with accelerator pedal still at 100%). Mine definitely does not behave that way and I'm trying to figure out if mine is working as intended or not. If you do create a video, please execute the shift very slowly to prove the point that engine speed gets held where the clutch was pushed in at. Even better would be not lifting off the clutch pedal while still at 100% accelerator pedal to show engine speed holding at something lower than 6500 RPM.

Thanks in advance!

[Chevy71]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

Thanks for the quick response. I would definitely appreciate a video of an SS (non-1LE) that shows when you press the clutch at 6000rpm that the engine speed stays there (with accelerator pedal still at 100%). Mine definitely does not behave that way and I'm trying to figure out if mine is working as intended or not. If you do create a video, please execute the shift very slowly to prove the point that engine speed gets held where the clutch was pushed in at. Even better would be not lifting off the clutch pedal while still at 100% accelerator pedal to show engine speed holding at something lower than 6500 RPM.

Thanks in advance!

It does build some rpm still, just doesn't sky rocket up. I will do what I can to get you some good documentation of it working, and it not working.

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by Chevy71

It does build some rpm still, just doesn't sky rocket up. I will do what I can to get you some good documentation of it working, and it not working.

Thanks!! Much Appreciated!

[MySS8U]

So in order to do this you need to be in track mode, at or above 6000-6500 rpm, hold the clutch down and fuel at the same time you shift gears?

[Chevy71]

Originally Posted by MySS8U

So in order to do this you need to be in track mode, at or above 6000-6500 rpm, hold the clutch down and fuel at the same time you shift gears?

If your car has a stock tune more the 95% throttle is required and fully engaged clutch. If you have a 1LE or a ZL1 it does it in every driving mode. The SS only does it in Track mode. I can't comment on the non V8 models as I have no experience with those.

[b0bsaget007]

Originally Posted by Chevy71

If your car has a stock tune more the 95% throttle is required and fully engaged clutch. If you have a 1LE or a ZL1 it does it in every driving mode. The SS only does it in Track mode. I can't comment on the non V8 models as I have no experience with those.

My 2.0T does it even in Tour mode. Can't say for Snow/Ice mode, since I don't use it.

[vtirocz]

Here's verbage from the 2009 Chevy Cobalt owner's manual, specifically regarding the no-lift shift algorithm on the SS model. Unfortunately Chevy includes nothing on this in the '16+ Camaro owner's manual which I find odd.

No-Lift Upshift (SS Models)
If the vehicle has the 2.0L turbo engine and manual
transmission, it has the capability of No-Lift Upshifts.
This feature maximizes vehicle acceleration by allowing
you to shift the transmission to a higher gear without
taking your foot off the accelerator. No-Lift Upshifting is
enabled in all Electronic Stability Control modes.
See Electronic Stability Control (ESC) on page 4-7 for
more information. Use this feature only when the engine
has reached normal operating temperature. Correct
shifting allows the engine to maintain boost pressure
during shifts, while also keeping the engine from
over-revving.
To utilize this feature:
1. Accelerate the vehicle by fully depressing the
accelerator pedal.
2. Just prior to reaching the maximum engine speed,
quickly complete the upshift utilizing the clutch while
keeping the accelerator pedal fully applied. A quicker
shift maneuver gives the best performance. If the
engine is operated at the maximum engine speed for
greater than one second, the engine exits the No-Lift
Upshift mode and resumes normal engine overspeed
protection.

[Fillys6]

I just ran a test on my 2017 2SS M6, here's the video.

It is clear that RPMs INCREASE to a 6400RPM limiter, whereas the 1LE DECREASES in preparation for the next gear (see this thread http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=503081).

If I were one of the engineers designing NLS, I would design it to work exactly like the 1LE video in order to reduce drive train shock. Having said that, I think I'm hitting the limiter

[vtirocz]

The No Lift Shift question was selected to be in the first poll in the "Ask Al" subforum - one of three questions will be submitted to the chief engineer, AL Oppenheiser. Be sure to vote for it if you want to get answers straight from the engineering team!

Here's a link to the poll: http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=510385

[Chevy71]

Sorry I have not got a video for you. I got a wild hair and have my car apart

[Marty McFlew]

Originally Posted by TJay74

Every V8 Camaro has the NLS feature.

Yes all Automatics have NLS.

[tomster]

AL's ANSWER:

First of all,

I’m glad you Camaro owners are using all of the functions of the car, including No-lift Shifting. Our engineering team is always looking for the best ways to combine performance and technology to improve the Camaro driving experience. This new “ask Al” forum seems like the perfect place to go further into detail on some of the features that may not get the proper explanation in the Press Releases or media outlets. I’d like to explain what the feature is, first, then explain how to use it on your Camaro. The Camaro has actually had ‘No-lift Shift’ since the 5th Generation. It is a feature that is intended for our drivers who want the performance feel of quick power shifting in our manual transmissions. The feature keeps the throttle at full open for both our boosted and non-boosted applications when passing through the Engine Over-speed Protection during a shift. In Engineering terms, when triggered, there is an immediate torque control, with fuel and spark, for a given period of time. Then, a predictive control takes over using the throttle to control torque. This allows the driver to take advantage of fast torque control for a short period of time (e.g. during the shift) without heating up or damaging the catalyst over time.

To address the most common question about the feature, you should know that there are both enable RPM’s and target RPM’s for each transmission, which are different for each engine application on the Camaro. We’ve put together a table below to show enable and target RPM by engine. To perform a No-lift Shift, simply put the throttle to the floor (i.e. WOT), and keep it there. Once the tachometer reaches the enable RPM, you can depress the clutch and shift as quickly as you can, and you’ll notice the tach will go to your target RPM during the shift. For example, if you are driving a 2017 SS Manual, with your throttle pedal to the floor, and the tach above 5000 RPM, say 5100 RPM, you can quickly upshift without lifting your throttle foot. The tach will reach the target RPM, in this example 6400 RPM, but not flare to redline. You can quick shift at any time during this RPM range. By the way, in our 2.0T Camaro (RPO LTG), if you are performing a No-lift Shift sequence, you will notice that you don’t lose boost during shifting, as you would with normal shifting. This adds up to an improved lap time or quarter mile. Also, you need to have a minimum speed of 15 kph (9.3 mph).

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I would like to address a few of the specific comments with regard to No-lift Shifting. As I mentioned, the feature is on all 6th Generation Camaro Manual Transmissions, with the exception of the 2016 2.0T and V6. Those were added in Model Year 2017 and beyond. With regard to the effect of Mode selection on No-lift Shift, there is no difference between Tour/Sport/Track/Snow-Ice mode or PTM mode on the ability to perform the quick shifts. Most people either don’t keep the throttle to the floor, or don’t wait until they reach their Enable RPM before performing their shift. Both are required criteria to execute the No-lift shift feature. Lastly, the Enable and Target RPM is different for each engine application, and even within an application (as in the SS and SS 1LE).

If you are having problems using the feature, give it a try as I’ve described in this response. It may seem counterintuitive to keep your throttle to the floor while shifting, and the V6 and SS target RPM’s seem close to redline, but trust that it works. It may just take some practice.

Good luck with our No-lift shifting! I hope this response is helpful, and the type of information you were looking to see from the Camaro team.

Until next time,
Al O.