[Mr. Meh]

Originally Posted by fastball

They are absolutely incorrect comparisons. What you compared it to were peripheral vehicle operations. The transmission is an essential part of the core of driving. You are just being an unconscionable jerk.

Driving a manual is all about the fun of driving, not about the best 0-60. I know automatics are faster now. I don't care. Most manual enthusiasts don't care. And as far as me being a nerdy guy, I am a biomed engineer and work on modern hospital electronics all day. I also play my Strat through a 1957 Fender Bassman 50 watt tube amp and have a 1965 Rowe jukebox.

I have no idea what that has to do with anything. Again, are you really a jerk like this to your friends and family or just busting my balls?

Oh, and BTW, just so you know, there's plenty of people who make far more money than you or I who pay MILLIONS of dollars for vintage cars with manual cranks, manual chokes, and even manually operated fuel pumps.

MILLIONS of dollars.

Given the tone and wording in a lot of your replies, on many threads, going back for a while, I'd be a little more hesitant on calling someone an unconscionable jerk. I wasn't out to compare cognitive abilities or careers other than noting your own listing of being nerdy. But, whatever. 0 sweat off my back.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Mr. Meh

Given the tone and wording in a lot of your replies, on many threads, going back for a while, I'd be a little more hesitant on calling someone an unconscionable jerk. I wasn't out to compare cognitive abilities or careers other than noting your own listing of being nerdy. But, whatever. 0 sweat off my back.

And I’m sure you failed to read exactly what and to whom I was replying and exactly why I had that tone.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

That's what I thought. Porsche will introduce the Mission E electric sports sedan in 2019. It will have a 300+ mile electric range and capability charging up to 80% capacity in 15 - 20 minutes. This is approximately how long I stop on road trips. I'd be ok with that.

While innovative, I would not yet be comfortable with this as a charge time in comparison to a gasoline motor vehicle. Everyone keeps referring to ~300 miles being the comparable to a gasoline vehicle but that is far from the truth in even our modern sports cars. My 2017 V6 Camaro can run 550 miles on a single tank (not exaggerating, 19 Gallon tank times 31 MPG freeway (and I'm capable of getting MUCH higher than 31) = 589 miles. My highest to date (this is with me actually TRYING to drive economy and save fuel) was 42 MPG, yes.. 42 in a V6 Camaro (proof at the bottom of this post).. and tested between stations, or basically it was enough to take me from W.Virginia to Atlanta using less than half of a tank of gas. The other thing you have to figure in is.. how many times you will have to stop between 300 mile intervals. For example, I recently drive from Atlanta to San Francisco. At 300 mile intervals and 15 minute downtime each, thats adding approximately 4 - 5 hours to the trip. Sorry, but...that won't work.

Originally Posted by Marty McFlew

If this country was really truly serious about pollution then they would stop with cutting down all the trees and replacing them with concrete slabs, houses, malls, office buildings etc. Lack of trees is worst on combating pollution than what cars put out. Not to mention the constant displacement of wildlife habitats. Politicians are FOS.

A-****ING-MEN!

Originally Posted by blewbyyou

If and when we get to electric cars what will happen if that idiot in N Korea
drops an electro magnetic bomb over us. everything electric will come to a halt. I hope to live another 30 years and never see that happen. we need someone to take that fool out. don't think his predecessor will have the balls to do anything.

Being realistic here, I'm kind of sick how everyone in the U.S. believes that N.K. are some sort of communist nation bent on leaving the planet in Nuclear Fallout, there are legit reasons N.K. is acting the way that they are and the U.S. and their actions in the middle east is a large part of that reason... There's alot more history to N.K. and the U.S. than what you see on Fox news and we kind of brought this on ourselves as N.K TWICE attempted to sign a peace treaty with us of which our country turned down... If we took down Kim and left N.K in one peace, they would quickly replace him and we would be back in the same situation because we interfere severely with N.Korea 's lifestyle Done with politics... Its more likely we would end up leaving N.Korea in the dark before they left us in the dark.. but all bets are off and just be thankful for tomorrow!

Originally Posted by Mr. Meh

It's more likely our Sun would cause such an event than N.K. An EMP bomb would most likely come in the form of a nuclear bomb and I'd be far more worried about those fallouts than the resulting EM surge.

Actually you are incorrect. An EM surge from a Nuclear Explosion placed almost anywhere would absolutely devastate the American powergrid. Congress has even admitted that we are not prepared for an event like this. It has happened before as well. Look up the missile tests that occured not far from Hawaii. HOWEVER, your EV vehicle would likely survive it, and honestly..even if it didn't.. your gasoline vehicle would not be in any better shape.

Originally Posted by wavsine

Oh sure, I will swap my $15,000 battery pack in my brand new car with one that may have already been recharged hundreds of times and is nearly worn out.

This just underscores the insanity of the think tank people trying to make this work.

I am of the belief that if this idea launches, said battery packs inside the car would contain hot-swappable cells, each cell would add range to your vehicle and no specific cell would be too difficult for an average joe to handle.

[QUOTE=90503;9928554]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Horse enthusiast circa late 1890's - "These stupid new-fangled automobiles with that loud motor will never replace the horse! A horse is cheaper, more fun to ride, and easier to get around on! Those noisy cars are way too expensive, can't go as far as I can go on my horse or even in my buggy behind my horses, and they are actually very bland! And only one color? No way!"

Automotive enthusiast in late '90's - "These stupid electric cars will never be popular or offer a tenth of performance my V8 does!"

Automotive enthusiast today - "They will never get rid of the fossil fueled vehicles - there are too many of them and they are cheaper and offer more fun to drive! And electric vehicles are too expensive, have less range, and are bland driving experiences!"

See where this is heading?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, It's heading back to the horse. Electric vehicles are more like the horse. Only good for around town, not long trips and you have to bring them to a stop everyday so they can rest and get fed. And their years of usefulness are low as well. Good point.

The horse would actually be a better replacement for fossil fuel engines. They are closer to the ideal goal of the EV.

At this current time you are correct, in the future that will likely change vastly.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Yes, but TunaMelt's point is that when he is driving ALL ELECTRIC on the highway, he still gets 28 - 29 miles out of the 35 (38 actually) that was advertised as a mixed use (city and hwy averaged) for the first generation Volt. My wife had a 1st gen and has a 2nd gen now and I agree with everything TunaMelt said. I can get more than 55 miles electric only in the city in my wife's car. On the highway I can get into the 40s, then the gas engine kicks in at 42 mpg. The total cruising range of the car (electric + hybrid mode) is 420 miles.

Thats cool don't get me wrong, but 420 miles seems alittle...short... I guess..for a hybrid..My 99 Z28 gets around the same range - although much less mileage.. I guess I just expected them to get way more..granted they probably also dont hold as much fuel and are way cheaper to fill up aswell..so Im not sure.. but my all gasoline V6 Camaro is capable of over 600 to a tank at 19 gallons and I have gotten around the same fuel milage.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Mr. Meh

This whole concept continuously evades and fascinates me.. That this particular human controlled interaction is so highly regarded and sought after, yet, I rarely hear anyone show the same emotional connection to manual brakes, hand cranked engines, lever operated ducting vs an auto thermostated HVAC, a rotary dial phone, a mechanical key to unlock your doors, cable actuated clutches vs your hydraulic one, dealing with the A/F mixtures instead of a computer, etc.. or, even a choke lever inside the cockpit.

If you don't yourself enjoy driving a MT car any more than driving an otherwise identical car equipped with AT, I doubt you'll ever really understand. But I'll try by suggesting that there's a difference between mechanically going through the motions (no matter how good you get at that part) and truly letting yourself become involved in keeping the engine at rpms appropriate to the driving situation of the moment.

I'll give you that the computer is far better suited to things like fueling and ignition that are best handled at the millisecond and shorter level, but I don't see any of your other "old-tech" examples being beneath my dignity like it apparently feels to some (electric start gets a pass because I'm not nearly strong enough to do that myself or care to risk getting a broken arm if I could). As far as I'm concerned, all the old-tech solutions have to do is make their functions happen with a reasonable degree of reliability.


BTW . . . we still have a rotary dial phone connected to the land line and it still gets a dial tone (for your benefit, I just checked this).


Norm

[craigss50]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Being realistic here, I'm kind of sick how everyone in the U.S. believes that N.K. are some sort of communist nation bent on leaving the planet in Nuclear Fallout, there are legit reasons N.K. is acting the way that they are and the U.S. and their actions in the middle east is a large part of that reason... There's alot more history to N.K. and the U.S. than what you see on Fox news and we kind of brought this on ourselves as N.K TWICE attempted to sign a peace treaty with us of which our country turned down... If we took down Kim and left N.K in one peace, they would quickly replace him and we would be back in the same situation because we interfere severely with N.Korea 's lifestyle Done with politics... Its more likely we would end up leaving N.Korea in the dark before they left us in the dark.. but all bets are off and just be thankful for tomorrow!

I guess you have forgotten that NK attacked and invaded SK in 1953 and took Soul SK? Yeah real peaceful. If not for us there would not be a SK.

[Mr. Wyndham]

North Korea really has nothing to do with EVs...let's please stay on topic. Thanks!

[Need4Camaro]

Bottom line is, it's still a far off shot. Extremely radical changes would have to occur nationwide before even our next 2 generation vehicles of any variety would have even a SHOT of going 100% electric.. I'm not stating that it WON'T ever happen, but its definitely not happening within the next 5 years, too much change will be necessary and it takes time to implement and perfect ALOT of the infrastructure that will be necessary to support those vehicles. It will be something that (much like currently) is slowly..shifted into the market, and will probably ultimately be diverged into an entirely different market than us who are performance enthusiasts, and that market will eventually be shifted into a majority as time passes.

This kind of reminds me of how everyone thought Solar Roadways were going to replace all of our streets and highways within like a decade...

[90503]

Here's a realistic and well thought out EV....$6K, 96 mile range, all electric, made by GM...

Only problem, it's only sold in China. For the price and limited range, it would make sense for around town, or regular commutes within it's range...

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showth...96229&page=314

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by 90503

Here's a realistic and well thought out EV....$6K, 96 mile range, all electric, made by GM...

Only problem, it's only sold in China. For the price and limited range, it would make sense for around town, or regular commutes within it's range...

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showth...96229&page=314

Attachment 900504

It looks like a new Gaming PC with wheels.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Here's a realistic and well thought out EV....$6K, 96 mile range, all electric, made by GM...

Only problem, it's only sold in China. For the price and limited range, it would make sense for around town, or regular commutes within it's range...

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showth...96229&page=314

Attachment 900504

Makes sense for China, but not the US. It has been looked at and rejected. If this was a form factor that Americans were interested in, SMART cars would be flying off the lots. They are not. If a small, low cost, under 100 mile range EV was something Americans cared about, the Spark EV (very fast car, btw) would have flown off the lots. It didn't. What is flying off the lots are $80,000 luxury sedans with 2 - 300 mile range and 0 - 60 in under 3 seconds.

I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this sell well in Europe, particularly Scandinavia and France. The times I've gone to Paris I noticed a couple things.

1. SMART cars are EVERYWHERE. If you've ever tried to park a car in Paris, you'd understand
2. They're into small EVs. There is a thriving point-of-use rental scheme using Bollore Bluecars.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Makes sense for China, but not the US. It has been looked at and rejected. If this was a form factor that Americans were interested in, SMART cars would be flying off the lots. They are not. If a small, low cost, under 100 mile range EV was something Americans cared about, the Spark EV (very fast car, btw) would have flown off the lots. It didn't. What is flying off the lots are $80,000 luxury sedans with 2 - 300 mile range and 0 - 60 in under 3 seconds.

I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this sell well in Europe, particularly Scandinavia and France. The times I've gone to Paris I noticed a couple things.

1. SMART cars are EVERYWHERE. If you've ever tried to park a car in Paris, you'd understand
2. They're into small EVs. There is a thriving point-of-use rental scheme using Bollore Bluecars.

My point was for an EV only, short range, the price of a new vehicle needs to be in line with what it does. I could justify spending 5-6K for an EV with 90 mile range, but not 13K-17K for a Spark.

Too bad they aren't more popular, though. I guess for EVs to save the planet, they need Gucci appeal, rather than being just practical...oh well...lol

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

My point was for an EV only, short range, the price of a new vehicle needs to be in line with what it does. I could justify spending 5-6K for an EV with 90 mile range, but not 13K-17K for a Spark.

Too bad they aren't more popular, though. I guess for EVs to save the planet, they need Gucci appeal, rather than being just practical...oh well...lol

Yeah, I could tell that was where you were going, but in this day and age, $10 - 13k is bare bones, even without an expensive battery, so if Spark EV couldn't sell, nobody can / will make a single purpose, just-get-me-there EV. Mitsubishi tried. Failed miserably. Look up Mitsubishi iMiEV. Just barely meets US regs. No features. Can't get any cheaper. Nobody cared.

[germanicus]

Originally Posted by fastball

Driving a manual is all about the fun of driving, not about the best 0-60. I know automatics are faster now. I don't care. Most manual enthusiasts don't care. And as far as me being a nerdy guy, I am a biomed engineer and work on modern hospital electronics all day. I also play my Strat through a 1957 Fender Bassman 50 watt tube amp and have a 1965 Rowe jukebox.

I love modern tech with guitars. Gave up on tube amps and adore my Helix and Tyler Variax. One guitar, one amp on stage, any tone, tuning, amp model with the flick of a switch!

Current generation of modelers has really obviated the advantages of tube amps.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Yeah, I could tell that was where you were going, but in this day and age, $10 - 13k is bare bones, even without an expensive battery, so if Spark EV couldn't sell, nobody can / will make a single purpose, just-get-me-there EV. Mitsubishi tried. Failed miserably. Look up Mitsubishi iMiEV. Just barely meets US regs. No features. Can't get any cheaper. Nobody cared.

Took a quick glance at the Mitsubishi....not sure what to make of it, bare bones or not...Horrible ratings, 62 mile range, and a $24K price tag...no wonder it was a flop.