[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by JB'sZL1

Dave regularly achieves mid elevens in his bone stock 5th gen Z...and that is close to low elevens.

Oh man, I'm so tempted to put that in my signature

So Dave lists his PB bone stock Gen5 ZL1 time as 11.591 in his sig, but regularly achieves mid 11s stock? Seems strange but OK.

Ok man, it's starting to feel like I'm picking on ya so I'll back off, but we're talking about a Hellcat and Gen6 ZL1 in this thread both of which have shown the ability to run 11.0 - 11.2 on OEM street tires. 11.2 is barely considered low 11s where I'm from, however it usually gets the nod.

When I don't know, I just simply say I don't know and try to learn from those that do, but I'll leave ya be rather than continue to debate the point.

Thanks for the correction on coattails, typos are another pet peeve of mine, but I've had to get over that one with so many folks posting from their phone these days.

[Njtony]

To throw some more wood on the fire, I removed the large center wing on my zo7 zo6 to run my best time. The tires had been changed from the sport cups to standard michelins that come on base zo6's. Does my car still qualify for the stock list on corvette forum? It ended up there. I still consider it a stock run but if I ran drag radials I wouldn't make that claim.

[grampa_ss]

Originally Posted by Njtony

To throw some more wood on the fire, I removed the large center wing on my zo7 zo6 to run my best time. The tires had been changed from the sport cups to standard michelins that come on base zo6's. Does my car still qualify for the stock list on corvette forum? It ended up there. I still consider it a stock run but if I ran drag radials I wouldn't make that claim.

No. Not on this forum. ANY modification and I mean anything will get you removed from the stock list and moved to the modded list. That goes anything. I left some towels and QD spray in the trunk. Well, that's Not allowed. As it added some weight and could possibly provide better traction.

When you mention the word "Stock" in this forum. They mean stock...factory stock. It's black and white....there is NO gray area. Some are very anal here.

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by grampa_ss

No. Not on this forum. ANY modification and I mean anything will get you removed from the stock list and moved to the modded list. That goes anything. I left some towels and QD spray in the trunk. Well, that's Not allowed. As it added some weight and could possibly provide better traction.

When you mention the word "Stock" in this forum. They mean stock...factory stock. It's black and white....there is NO gray area. Some are very anal here.

What if I ate a monstrous burrito and made my runs prior to defecating?

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by Blackdevil77

What if I ate a monstrous burrito and made my runs prior to defecating?

You're ok unless you plumbed yourself into the EGR, which would be an unfair gas charge boost mod.

[HAMMERHEAD15]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Oh man, I'm so tempted to put that in my signature

So Dave lists his PB bone stock Gen5 ZL1 time as 11.591 in his sig, but regularly achieves mid 11s stock? Seems strange but OK.

Ok man, it's starting to feel like I'm picking on ya so I'll back off, but we're talking about a Hellcat and Gen6 ZL1 in this thread both of which have shown the ability to run 11.0 - 11.2 on OEM street tires. 11.2 is barely considered low 11s where I'm from, however it usually gets the nod.

When I don't know, I just simply say I don't know and try to learn from those that do, but I'll leave ya be rather than continue to debate the point.

Thanks for the correction on coattails, typos are another pet peeve of mine, but I've had to get over that one with so many folks posting from their phone these days.

You are comparing best runs of the hellcat over a few years and best conditions to the 17 ZL1 in the worst conditions! ZL1 best times around the 11.20-11.40
Mark. You
Will see 10 second runs off the showroom! And better with DR's and CIA! Just wait for the cooler weather! Hell the stock Hellcays are barely breaking 12's in the heat I'm running in down here in Florida!

[HAMMERHEAD15]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Oh man, I'm so tempted to put that in my signature

So Dave lists his PB bone stock Gen5 ZL1 time as 11.591 in his sig, but regularly achieves mid 11s stock? Seems strange but OK.

Ok man, it's starting to feel like I'm picking on ya so I'll back off, but we're talking about a Hellcat and Gen6 ZL1 in this thread both of which have shown the ability to run 11.0 - 11.2 on OEM street tires. 11.2 is barely considered low 11s where I'm from, however it usually gets the nod.

When I don't know, I just simply say I don't know and try to learn from those that do, but I'll leave ya be rather than continue to debate the point.

Thanks for the correction on coattails, typos are another pet peeve of mine, but I've had to get over that one with so many folks posting from their phone these days.

I've run 11.40 with my 5th gen on DR's and CIA. Does that count as a stock run? I don't think so. Far from the stock 11.9

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by HAMMERHEAD15

You are comparing best runs of the hellcat over a few years and best conditions to the 17 ZL1 in the worst conditions! ZL1 best times around the 11.20-11.40
Mark. You
Will see 10 second runs off the showroom! And better with DR's and CIA! Just wait for the cooler weather! Hell the stock Hellcays are barely breaking 12's in the heat I'm running in down here in Florida!

That is a good point. I dont track DA as close as some since FI cars make their own atmosphere for the most part. Youre right its still a factor though.

Originally Posted by HAMMERHEAD15

I've run 11.40 with my 5th gen on DR's and CIA. Does that count as a stock run? I don't think so. Far from the stock 11.9

Id give you the DRs but SC cars can pick up 30-40 rwhp with a cai so its no bueno for comparison sake. What was your MPH difference stock vs DR and cai? Interestingy Hellcat doesnt gain anything with a cai which was a surprise, must be due to the open headlight.

[grampa_ss]

Originally Posted by Infern0

So you're aware of a place on this planet where changing something isn't changing something? This is black or white. On or off. One or zero. Very simple, stock or not.

If I was asked that question my response wouldn't be phrased like your statement ("no it's modded"), which implies you did something intentionally as a performance boost, but it isn't stock. It has been modded - which is only short for "modified" if you weren't aware. I'd simply say the only thing I've done is changed the tires for whatever reason.

I don't think anyone on here is claiming you have an unfair advantage with all-season tires. I really think this is coming down to the purity of the term, stock. Otherwise, how far do you let it go? How do you qualify which tires you still consider stock and which ones you don't? The definition as it comes from the plant makes it very easy to differentiate.

Finally, what if it does in fact net you .01 in your 1/4 times? Then, once 10+ people do that and post their times to the fast list, you've bumped all truly stock cars off the list. Still fair?

Just my two cents. Spend them wisely.

Another thing to be aware of....according to the above post, you cannot lower the air pressure in the rear tires either as it's considered a "change" from factory stock.

[HAMMERHEAD15]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

That is a good point. I dont track DA as close as some since FI cars make their own atmosphere for the most part. Youre right its still a factor though.



Id give you the DRs but SC cars can pick up 30-40 rwhp with a cai so its no bueno for comparison sake. What was your MPH difference stock vs DR and cai? Interestingy Hellcat doesnt gain anything with a cai which was a surprise, must be due to the open headlight.

Now we are going to split hairs! It's ok to put DR's on the Hellcat because they put shitty tires on it stock but since they put a shitty air box on the ZL1 then if we change that it's a mod? Your just a troll! Go back to your Hellcat sight where y'all change tires gear ratio and who knows what else and call it stock! Go home your drunk!

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by HAMMERHEAD15

Now we are going to split hairs! It's ok to put DR's on the Hellcat because they put shitty tires on it stock but since they put a shitty air box on the ZL1 then if we change that it's a mod? Your just a troll! Go back to your Hellcat sight where y'all change tires gear ratio and who knows what else and call it stock! Go home your drunk!

And of coarse nobody would ever not be truthful about hidden mods here in the Camaro 5/6 forums.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by HAMMERHEAD15

Now we are going to split hairs! It's ok to put DR's on the Hellcat because they put shitty tires on it stock but since they put a shitty air box on the ZL1 then if we change that it's a mod? Your just a troll! Go back to your Hellcat sight where y'all change tires gear ratio and who knows what else and call it stock! Go home your drunk!

Dude, get a grip on yourself. All the "!" denoting yelling and name calling isn't necessary. I gave you credit for making the point on DA and current ZL1 times for crying out loud.

I've been a member of C5/C6 forums since 2008 and own a 2016 2SS Camaro, so get over this troll business. I'm certainly not a fanboy of any brand like a lot of folks tend to be though which makes me objective about any car. You're a baby on this forum compared to my time here and I actually attend events like CamaroFest, so relax and stick to discussion about the cars.

My take is to get as much as you can out of the stock POWER the car has to really understand what it's capable of off the show room floor. If that means it needs tires in order to use all the power the factory gave us, then so be it.

Once you start adding horsepower there's no way to make a comparison any longer. So give the ZL1 a CAI, I'll put a tune on my Hellcat, get it? I understand there are strict rules to be on the stock list on this forum, and that's fine and good if that's what you're in to. Matter of fact, my bone stock time in my 2SS is on there at #8 currently from when I was base lining the car.

You come to the track with me running stock air pressure and stock tires and you'll be seeing my tail lights pass after pass and that's all anyone at the track is gonna remember, video, post, talk about, etc. How the Hellcat is faster than the ZL1, but hey you'll have your spot on the C6 fast list

[Fraxum]

The beast way to beat stock only system is Ex Lax and go commando.

But here is the real rule:

Bone-Stock on Stock Tires. This means completely stock with no performance changes whatsoever; must have stock tires, stock exhaust, stock airpath, stock “untuned” computer (ECU/PCM), etc.

It seems to me you can run with fumes in the tank, no washer fluid, and remove the seats. Depends if weight reduction is a performance mod. Ask Merc.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

My take is to get as much as you can out of the stock POWER the car has to really understand what it's capable of off the show room floor. If that means it needs tires in order to use all the power the factory gave us, then so be it.

Once you start adding horsepower there's no way to make a comparison any longer. So give the ZL1 a CAI, I'll put a tune on my Hellcat, get it? I understand there are strict rules to be on the stock list on this forum, and that's fine and good if that's what you're in to. Matter of fact, my bone stock time in my 2SS is on there at #8 currently from when I was base lining the car.

I agree with your point about 'adding horsepower' is no longer stock. But, if using DRs is ok in your opinion what about the guy that puts on slicks? It's a tire change, right?

Nearly every car out there needs a better tire to use the horsepower 'the factory gave you' for the most part and when you are in the 650-700+ range that is no question.

But - it is also no question that changing the tire to a drag radial or slick means the car is no longer 'factory stock'. That's not saying it isn't needed because it is.

I agree that Dodge really screwed the pooch on the HC with putting those skinny tires on it but that is what it comes with and therefore is what is considered 'stock'. Yes, if I buy a HC a tire size/type will be the FIRST mod BUT - I will not argue that it is still stock.

Others apparently feel differently.