[speedyman]

Originally Posted by Hammerli

Wait, what, some logic here? Don't pull that when we are talking about new cars as investments and retained value. I mean ask any economics professor how good of an investment a new car is, and you'll get a pretty universal reply filled with laughter.

But mostly thank you for addressing the bench racing aspect. Most track days I have been to are not attended by people of Randy Pobst's skill, and a couple of track schools would be a better investment than a few vehicle features to an already track-friendly feature laden car if the goal is to lower lap times. If I give my wife a $6500 camera with a $5000 lens on it, I am not going to make her into a professional track photographer. If she was using her iPhone, of course she is going to get better pictures, but if she was using a $2500 camera with a $2000 lens, she is probably going to get nearly identical results. If you aren't fully utilizing the capabilities of the ZL1 on the track, then the 1LE isn't going to make you a better driver.

You hit the nail on the head, it is about bragging rights, let's just call a spade a spade, and let it go.

Excellent post my friend. Great way to put this in perspective. There is a humorous side to this if you read enough of these posts. It quickly becomes painfully obvious that many a performance car owner overestimates his abilities with these high potency offerings that we now have to choose from. Gotta love the guys who boast of their competence at 200 MPH, that one is as laughable as it is scary.

[396ssrat]

Over the course of time I've seen government rear it's ugly head and intervene in the manufacturing of performance vehicles. In the 60's you could buy a car from the factory with a whopping 12.5 to 1 compression. In the days following the government mandated unleaded fuel rendering those cars to relics of the past. Then came the 80's with mediocre factory offerings and anemic horsepower. Fast forward to today and we have cars which produce over 700 horsepower and 20 mpg. How long does anybody think this accepted level of power will fly before some government dogooder puts the skids to it? Enjoy 'em while you can, electric and hydrogen cars are on the immediate radar and the lowly gasoline engine will be outlawed. Bet on it!!!

[hawk02]

Originally Posted by GoneBoy

I hear you, man. And you seem passionate about how you feel, so it's not my place to minimize or discount that. But all i can do is lol when i think about us living during a time where an all-around 650hp athelete-of-a-vehicle has its owner spooked that it's now run of the mill. Dude, take a step back and visualize how blessed you are...how many other cats would love to live 1 day in your shoes. I know i do because i see them taking pics of my car when I'm leaving a restaurant, or pumping gas, or leaving Target, or basically anywhere on the road. You should not take that for granted. We've beaten the depreciation argument to death. Just enjoy your car every second you're in it. Sorry to go rogue and take this thread way off topic, but these auto manufacturers are really spoiling some of us and we don't even realize it.

You're absolutely right. In the grand scheme of things my complaint about devaluation is extremely minor. The sun will come up tomorrow, I still have bills to pay, so on and so forth...

BUT... as a 6th gen ZL1 owner, I do feel I have a right to express my displeasure with the timing of this announcement and the impact I believe the timing has made on the value of my car. For a lot of people, myself included, $65K is still a lot of money to spend for a car. That price tag puts the car in a whole other class which I think Chevy failed to take into account when it made the 1LE announcement when it did.

Do I still love my ZL1? You bet I do. Am I still as big a Chevy fan boy today as I was before the announcement. That's a tough question. Probably not. I'll get over it. I always do. But the first person that tells me I only have a "run of the mill ZL1" better watch out as I may go non-linear.

[GoneBoy]

Originally Posted by hawk02

You're absolutely right. In the grand scheme of things my complaint about devaluation is extremely minor. The sun will come up tomorrow, I still have bills to pay, so on and so forth...

BUT... as a 6th gen ZL1 owner, I do feel I have a right to express my displeasure with the timing of this announcement and the impact I believe the timing has made on the value of my car. For a lot of people, myself included, $65K is still a lot of money to spend for a car. That price tag puts the car in a whole other class which I think Chevy failed to take into account when it made the 1LE announcement when it did.

Do I still love my ZL1? You bet I do. Am I still as big a Chevy fan boy today as I was before the announcement. That's a tough question. Probably not. I'll get over it. I always do. But the first person that tells me I only have a "run of the mill ZL1" better watch out as I may go non-linear.

Ha Ha! Cheers, mate.

[Artos]

Originally Posted by hawk02

But the first person that tells me I only have a "run of the mill ZL1" better watch out as I may go non-linear.

Well, the first bragging rights ZL1 1LE owner that approaches me about my A10 & says "couldn't afford the real thing"??

I'm gonna throat punch him...and maybe a taint kick on the way down.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by RobertSmith

Didn't you swap an LT4 engine into a car a little while ago?

Yes

[detltu]

You guys are hilarious. If you are saying the 1LE won't make you a better driver, you are absolutely correct. Neither will the ZL1 or the SS or any Camaro. You're much better off buying the I4 and spending all the money you save on lessons and track days.

If you are saying you wouldn't turn a faster lap in the 1LE you're nuts. Unless you can't drive a stick then probably so. Just putting the tires on would make you faster. This package will do more for most drivers than 100hp and bigger brakes would do.

A lot of people don't track and/ or don't appreciate the aero. That is fine. This announcement clearly doesn't affect you. For a small percentage of people this is equivalent to a second year horsepower bump or price drop.

[OminouSS]

Originally Posted by detltu

You guys are hilarious. If you are saying the 1LE won't make you a better driver, you are absolutely correct. Neither will the ZL1 or the SS or any Camaro. You're much better off buying the I4 and spending all the money you save on lessons and track days.

If you are saying you wouldn't turn a faster lap in the 1LE you're nuts. Unless you can't drive a stick then probably so. Just putting the tires on would make you faster. This package will do more for most drivers than 100hp and bigger brakes would do.

A lot of people don't track and/ or don't appreciate the aero. That is fine. This announcement clearly doesn't affect you. For a small percentage of people this is equivalent to a second year horsepower bump or price drop.

You're pretty amusing yourself. Here. Now I own the first ZL1 1LE:

[Zack46]

Originally Posted by Artos

Well, the first bragging rights ZL1 1LE owner that approaches me about my A10 & says "couldn't afford the real thing"??

I'm gonna throat punch him...and maybe a taint kick on the way down.

Best post on here!

LOL!

Ha Ha!

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

Yup again if you are a track rat, well, 1 you are dissapointed no NA Z/28, but 2, this is the top track Camara right now so yes, the better choice for that. but all that aero just decreased your record top speed, and dare I say your 1320 times.

The aero shouldn't have much of an effect on 1/4mile drag race MPH. The aero is just starting to work and your off the throttle. Roll racing and 1/2 mile racing, different story. Use the regular ZL1 for high speed straight line stuff.

[detltu]

Originally Posted by OminouSS

You're pretty amusing yourself. Here. Now I own the first ZL1 1LE:

I get what you are saying, for most drivers (myself included) you could upgrade the tires and get a good chunk of the performance benefits that the 1LE offers. That's true and for some people that is close enough for their purposes. There comes a point in the learning curve where those benefits can be appreciated though and it's somewhere less than Randy Pobst.

[Gunmetalmissle]

This is the same story over and over again whenever the next big thing comes out. Better get used to it. Gone are the days of the same car being sold for the better part of a decade with minimal to no changes.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

The aero shouldn't have much of an effect on 1/4mile drag race MPH. The aero is just starting to work and your off the throttle. Roll racing and 1/2 mile racing, different story. Use the regular ZL1 for high speed straight line stuff.

Aero comes in to play well below 100 mph. It's why the Z07 clocks slower than the base Z06 in the 1/4. Might not effect 0 to 60 as much, but it will impact 1/4 mile times.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by travislambert

The new package doesn't have to have universal appeal to devalue the base model.
I think this is what people are struggling to understand, so bear with me while I try to explain it a slightly different way.


(SUPPLY)
GM is going to produce every ZL1 they can for '17.

(DEMAND)
Even in this thread there are cases of folks skipping over the '17 ZL1s to wait for the '18 ZL1 1LE. Every person that skips over the '17 equates to another '17 that is a little tougher to sell.

SUPPLY is constant... DEMAND decreases... INCENTIVES are on the way!

(INCENTIVES)
At the end of the model year, GM will eventually be forced to incentivize the '17s. The more '17s they have going into the '18 model year, the higher the incentives... which depreciates the '17s.

Just for a moment assume the '18s were identical in every way to the '17s. This would minimize depreciation. The '17s would sell better because there wouldn't be people holding out for the improvements in the '18s. For the folks simply holding out for the next model year, on average it'd take less of an incentive to get them to purchase an otherwise identical '17.

This is, IMO, exactly what happened to the value of '16 SS. GM announced bigger and better models for '17 (SS 1LE, ZL1) and then got stuck with a bunch of '16s they couldn't sell. Then when they had to put 20% incentives on a large number of cars in the fall, the values went to crap.

Take a look at John Deere tractors for an example in the opposite extreme. Particular models are usually identical year-to-year with the occasional (every 5 years or so) major update. The depreciation on those tractors is negligible so much so that the model year usually isn't even factored into the value (just the model and the hours).

You about got it right. However, there are a couple of things to add. First is the 20% incentive. For the most part it is seasonal, as most incentives are like any other sale or promotional offer, they are typically time limited. So, as far as it devaluing the overall market, it's more ebb and flow.

Then there is the used car factor. Even putting 20% off new car MSRP, it's really just starting to touch the depreciation already realized just by registering the car. During the sale it might be a little tougher to unload a used car like this, but come spring, when the demand rises and incentives fade, then the used car market levels out. People buy used cars like this for only one reason, affordability.

But, for the most part you're right. When these things start rolling down the line, and there is a push of folks like yourself that trading in a practically new '17 for the 1LE, the used market will surge with '17's and supply v demand will have it's way for a brief time. But eventually the market will even out as those cars get snatched up, then the avg used price will go back up.