[travislambert]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

There's another issue....I don't think the fronts will fit. Look at how skinny/compact they made this generation DSSV struts. Last gen Z/28 wasn't like this...I think this was necessary to fit the 305 wheel/tire in there.

Wow! Good catch. I'm really thinking seriously about canceling my order now.

[RedCamaroZL1]

Having the weekend to further digest all of this....
I don't care that they made a 1LE version. Still stoked AF to have a ZL1 A10 on order. I'm not going to road track more than 1 to 2 times if ever with it. And I can't drive like a pro to take advantage of any level of Camaro. I could be out there in a Miata having a blast on a track!
This generation of Camaro is amazing from the top to the bottom of the lineup and I happy to be an enthusiast right now!!!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by travislambert

Wow! Good catch. I'm really thinking seriously about canceling my order now.

.........me, too.

I wonder how it'll look in blue...

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by hotlap

3) My, yet to be built, 2SS didn't devalue in light of the new 1LE. Nor did any M6 SS.

How do you know this?

I don't know about you, but my '16 SS depreciated more than any car I've ever owned.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by travislambert

How do you know this?

I don't know about you, but my '16 SS depreciated more than any car I've ever owned.

Yes, but not because they came out with a 1LE.

It depreciated because like so many GM cars and more specifically the Camaro, they offer 20% and more off sticker to move the cars on the lot. THAT is why GM cars aren't holding residual value.

The only hope you had is if you, like the folks on the other thread, are able to report a 20 plus (yes even MORE than TAG pricing according to some) off sticker. That type of pricing automatically devalues your Camaro SS.

My Audi SS that I traded for my SS held value well enough to at least get 100% of my DP back for trade. My SS right now is nowhere near that because primarily because people can go get a brand new one for almost $10k less than I paid and that was with employee pricing.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Yes, but not because they came out with a 1LE.

It depreciated because like so many GM cars and more specifically the Camaro, they offer 20% and more off sticker to move the cars on the lot. THAT is why GM cars aren't holding residual value.

The only hope you had is if you, like the folks on the other thread, are able to report a 20 plus (yes even MORE than TAG pricing according to some) off sticker. That type of pricing automatically devalues your Camaro SS.

My Audi SS that I traded for my SS held value well enough to at least get 100% of my DP back for trade. My SS right now is nowhere near that because primarily because people can go get a brand new one for almost $10k less than I paid and that was with employee pricing.

Right, but GM doesn't offer incentives because they're nice people. As I'm sure you know they offer incentives because they're having trouble selling cars. Maybe, the reason they were having trouble selling the '16s is because the '17s offer more options/ better packages. In other words, there are probably at least some customers who would have otherwise purchased a '16, but after the '17 1LE announcement decided to wait.

Just like now, people are going to wait for the '18 ZL1 1LE and not buy a '17 ZL1... Incentives are on the horizon.. and incentives cause depreciation.

[DrkPhx]

Great point Number 3. When I bought my ZL1 new in 2012 I was fortunate enough to get it well below msrp, but not the 20% off GM offers. Looking back with 20/20 hindsight I now know it's best to be patient and wait for a great deal. There's always going to be a quicker and better model that comes along; that's just the nature of the beast.

[WhyUMad1LE]

Originally Posted by travislambert

Right, but GM doesn't offer incentives because they're nice people. As I'm sure you know they offer incentives because they're having trouble selling cars. Maybe, the reason they were having trouble selling the '16s is because the '17s offer more options/ better packages. In other words, there are probably at least some customers who would have otherwise purchased a '16, but after the '17 1LE announcement decided to wait.

Just like now, people are going to wait for the '18 ZL1 1LE and not buy a '17 ZL1... Incentives are on the horizon.. and incentives cause depreciation.

The 2016 didn't sell well, but that wasn't because of the 2017 announcements. In fact I wouldn't have bought a Camaro at all if there was no SS 1LE.

1) The Camaro moved up in price point by a significant margin
2) It didn't look different enough from the older cheaper model
3) (Reason for discount) GM sucks at managing supply and demand. They always overproduce cars just to mark them down at the end of the MY. Doesn't matter whether it's a Silverado or a Cadillac or a Camaro or a Corvette.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

Great point Number 3. When I bought my ZL1 new in 2012 I was fortunate enough to get it well below msrp, but not the 20% off GM offers. Looking back with 20/20 hindsight I now know it's best to be patient and wait for a great deal. There's always going to be a quicker and better model that comes along; that's just the nature of the beast.

You have to look past the obvious and realize why the MAJOR incentives are needed to see my point.

[DrkPhx]

Originally Posted by travislambert

You have to look past the obvious and realize why the MAJOR incentives are needed to see my point.

It's obvious the incentives are part of GM's pricing and marketing strategy and not a panic induced stop gap measure as seen by some. Yes of course it helps sells vehicles (that's the intent of any sale right?), but GM still remains profitable. I do think new vehicle prices are insanely high, but that's another subject altogether.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by WhyUMad1LE

The 2016 didn't sell well, but that wasn't because of the 2017 packages. It's because:

1) The Camaro moved up in price point by a significant margin
2) It didn't look different enough from the older cheaper model
3) (Reason for discount) GM sucks at managing supply and demand. They always overproduce cars just to mark them down at the end of the MY. Doesn't matter whether it's a Silverado or a Cadillac or a Camaro or a Corvette.

I see what you're saying. I agree with their supply management on the Camaro, but I don't agree as a blanket GM statement especially since my last 2 GM trucks I purchased new didn't depreciate much at all.

The timing of the announcements make a difference.

There are several '17 ZL1s on the dealer lots now and there will be more going into the summer. As announcements of better future models are made, the incentives to get rid of the '17s are only going to need to be larger as more people decide to wait. If they would keep the announcements under their hats a little longer (until the supply decreases), the major incentives won't be as necessary.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by travislambert

The answer is in my original post. I think we were all expecting more of a stripped-down track car closer to the 5th Gen Z/28. I had no desire for this. Instead we got a street-car with all of the creature comforts that's great for the track. This does appeal to me.

Chevy took a lot of crap for the stripped, $75k Z/28. There was more reason to expect the opposite.

Originally Posted by travislambert

Maybe, but I'm skeptical. I don't think anyone will know for certain how punishing the car is on the street until we drive it. I'm thinking the ride quality will be an improvement on the Z/28. If the ride quality is truly terrible for the street, my guess is that GM would have taken the car a step further by stripping it down and calling it a Z/28. It's anybody's guess, this is just my guess.

With solid rear mounts and DSSV suspension? No guess.

Originally Posted by travislambert

I see your point, but that just not the way I see it. I've mentioned my position as a street car. Here's a 1/4 mile example: Traction is the biggest challenge for great 1/4 mile times on the stock setup. I know the aero of the 1LE isn't favorable for the drag strip, but I wouldn't be surprised if the lighter wheels and improved traction of the wider rear tires more than made up the difference.

A manual ZL1 won't be within 2 car lengths of the A10 cars. An additional 0.8" of tire width isn't going to compensate and the aero is going to be like dragging a parachute.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Yes, but not because they came out with a 1LE.

It depreciated because like so many GM cars and more specifically the Camaro, they offer 20% and more off sticker to move the cars on the lot. THAT is why GM cars aren't holding residual value.

The only hope you had is if you, like the folks on the other thread, are able to report a 20 plus (yes even MORE than TAG pricing according to some) off sticker. That type of pricing automatically devalues your Camaro SS.

My Audi SS that I traded for my SS held value well enough to at least get 100% of my DP back for trade. My SS right now is nowhere near that because primarily because people can go get a brand new one for almost $10k less than I paid and that was with employee pricing.

Chevy got me on this one because I believed the early press about protecting the value of the new models. Lesson learned... never buy GM until the deals come.

I did wait on my 13 ZL1

Edit: I acted to buy a new SS as soon as I saw it was on par with my ZL1's performance with a better interior. I wasn't looking for a deal as much as wanting to move away from the gen5 before it depreciated further

[BoostedX2]

Originally Posted by Sven59 View Post
I heard a rumor they will be revealing the 1/4 mile version of the ZL1 shortly.

Originally Posted by detltu

That actually wouldn't shock me. Maybe use the same lightweight items, remove the aero. Skinnier front tires. Pair it with the 10 speed. Not sure what suspension to use . Solid rear axle? Something to compete with the demon. I doubt they can compete with the demon which would make it even more impressive if they did.

We saw a ZL1 without the aero so maybe.

I am ALL IN if they do this!!!!