[Interceptor9c1]

GMs advertising is terrible. As in, there is none. Only commercial I've seen a camaro in is a generic "initial quality award" commercial with multiple other models. If I wasn't already a die hard chevy guy, I would have walked into a Dodge dealer. Remember when the 4th gen trans am was eating other cars and exploding stop lights?

[Rich S]

It is pretty unanimous, People hate the visibility in this car. I dont get it as I have zero problems but that is the biggest reason.

[Evil-Bee-NH]

Originally Posted by Rich S

It is pretty unanimous, People hate the visibility in this car. I dont get it as I have zero problems but that is the biggest reason.

I hear the same thing and totally agree with you it took me all of 5 seconds to adjust my seat & mirrors I mean ya it's a smaller window view then other cars but unless your on an AutoX the pillars are not a hindrance. If more people learned how to adjust their driving habits like seat and mirrors and spent less time whining about the windshield view we'd prolly have less accidents in the world as a whole.

[Cow Poker]

Muscle cars of the 60's and early 70's are being built by men in their late 50's and 60's. They are reliving their youth, or showing off their success by throwing a lot of money at a muscle car rebuild. They may not had the chance to own a proper muscle car in their youth and now have the opportunity. The cars of today will be the classic cars in the future. They are more technologically advanced from the 60's muscle cars, but can still be modified for additional performance. The youth of today will look at these cars to attain when they are able to afford the opportunity, not some modified resto mod'd old junker from the past before they were even born. We are in a bubble now that will burst in the near future, enjoy it while it lasts, and look forward to bringing it back in 30 years when the youth of today can afford to do so, or other circumstances allow.

[BrianL]

Originally Posted by Cow Poker

Muscle cars of the 60's and early 70's are being built by men in their late 50's and 60's. They are reliving their youth, or showing off their success by throwing a lot of money at a muscle car rebuild. They may not had the chance to own a proper muscle car in their youth and now have the opportunity. The cars of today will be the classic cars in the future. They are more technologically advanced from the 60's muscle cars, but can still be modified for additional performance. The youth of today will look at these cars to attain when they are able to afford the opportunity, not some modified resto mod'd old junker from the past before they were even born. We are in a bubble now that will burst in the near future, enjoy it while it lasts, and look forward to bringing it back in 30 years when the youth of today can afford to do so, or other circumstances allow.

I do hope this is true. I was fortunate to have had a '69 Mustang with the 428 Cobra Jet back when I was college age. I was a die hard muscle car fan. I now have this 2SS that would have kicked that cars ass in any contest. My 19 year old grandson has absolutely no interest in my Camaro. He can drive a stick & several times I asked if he wanted to take it out. I would have given my left nut when I was 19 to take this car out for a spin & if my Grandad had a hot car, I would have been astounded. He declines every time. Basically said he really wasn't interested in driving it.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Rich S

It is pretty unanimous, People hate the visibility in this car. I dont get it as I have zero problems but that is the biggest reason.

True but the general public is stupid. Also you have people that either hear it has bad visibility, read that it has bad visibility etc. Then those people either see the car at the auto show, or go to the dealer or see a neighbor with one and make a judgement about it in a few minutes of interaction in the car.

Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH

I hear the same thing and totally agree with you it took me all of 5 seconds to adjust my seat & mirrors I mean ya it's a smaller window view then other cars but unless your on an AutoX the pillars are not a hindrance. If more people learned how to adjust their driving habits like seat and mirrors and spent less time whining about the windshield view we'd prolly have less accidents in the world as a whole.

Also true you can adjust your mirrors/driving habits but on a 5 minute test drive those blind spots if you don't have everything the way you like it might stick with you

[COmaro]

Originally Posted by BrianL

I do hope this is true. I was fortunate to have had a '69 Mustang with the 428 Cobra Jet back when I was college age. I was a die hard muscle car fan. I now have this 2SS that would have kicked that cars ass in any contest. My 19 year old grandson has absolutely no interest in my Camaro. He can drive a stick & several times I asked if he wanted to take it out. I would have given my left nut when I was 19 to take this car out for a spin & if my Grandad had a hot car, I would have been astounded. He declines every time. Basically said he really wasn't interested in driving it.

I also had a 428 Mach I, a '70, and yes a modern Camaro, Challenger, or Mustang V8 murders those cars in every measurement, including 1/4 mile.

My 25 year old son is a die hard motorhead, he rebuilds engines, trans, suspensions, he has three track cars (road track, not drag) at the moment. He has *zero* interest in any Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers, Corvettes. To him, and a lot of others in his age bracket, it is all about the Euro and Japanese cars, preferably with AWD.

It is an image problem as much as anything else. He appreciates the US engineering on pony cars and Corvettes, but they simply are not the things his generation are into. I get it. Back when I was in high school in the late-70's, it was all about the muscle car. A friend of mine's father was into old hot rods, and couldn't understand why we liked a 350 Nova better than his T-Bucket. Those cars just weren't what we were into.

The problem with Camaro/Challenger/Mustang is that the big three are trying to sell a brand new T-Bucket to a kid in 1976 who wanted a 428 Mach I, and could get a used one dirt cheap.

I know a lot of people here aren't going to get this, but all three of the big three need to move on. The retro styling has to go, and modern designs need to be put in their place. Unfortunately for you and me, the names need to be retired, too.

What is the most talked about performance car in the US right now in the under-30 demographic? It isn't the ZL1, 1LE, Grand Sport, GT350, or Hellcat. It is this: https://www.alfaromeousa.com/cars/al...a-quadrifoglio

[RobertSmith]

Originally Posted by COmaro

I also had a 428 Mach I, a '70, and yes a modern Camaro, Challenger, or Mustang V8 murders those cars in every measurement, including 1/4 mile.

My 25 year old son is a die hard motorhead, he rebuilds engines, trans, suspensions, he has three track cars (road track, not drag) at the moment. He has *zero* interest in any Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers, Corvettes. To him, and a lot of others in his age bracket, it is all about the Euro and Japanese cars, preferably with AWD.

It is an image problem as much as anything else. He appreciates the US engineering on pony cars and Corvettes, but they simply are not the things his generation are into. I get it. Back when I was in high school in the late-70's, it was all about the muscle car. A friend of mine's father was into old hot rods, and couldn't understand why we liked a 350 Nova better than his T-Bucket. Those cars just weren't what we were into.

The problem with Camaro/Challenger/Mustang is that the big three are trying to sell a brand new T-Bucket to a kid in 1976 who wanted a 428 Mach I, and could get a used one dirt cheap.

I know a lot of people here aren't going to get this, but all three of the big three need to move on. The retro styling has to go, and modern designs need to be put in their place. Unfortunately for you and me, the names need to be retired, too.

What is the most talked about performance car in the US right now in the under-30 demographic? It isn't the ZL1, 1LE, Grand Sport, GT350, or Hellcat. It is this: https://www.alfaromeousa.com/cars/al...a-quadrifoglio

I don't hear anyone talking about Alfa. The problem is the way mustang and Camaro are supposed to be everything. This just makes everything more expensive.

[maraging]

Originally Posted by RobertSmith

I don't hear anyone talking about Alfa. The problem is the way mustang and Camaro are supposed to be everything. This just makes everything more expensive.

Umm yeah i would guess almost anything is more talked about than the alfa by the under 30 crowd.

[COmaro]

Originally Posted by maraging

Umm yeah i would guess almost anything is more talked about than the alfa by the under 30 crowd.

You are in Kansas, the other guy is on the east coast. Colorado and west to California, almost no one under 30 gives a rat's behind about American cars, which is why Honda and Subaru (yes SUBARU) outsell all GM cars combined in CO and CA, and probably other states west of the Rockies as well.

I go weeks without seeing a Camaro around here. Chevrolet's total market share in Colorado is 7.5%, but that includes trucks. If you subtract trucks it is about 3.5%. Counting trucks, Toyota is 12%, Subaru is 11%, Honda is 7.5%. Ford's total market share including F150 is only 11%. Dodge/Chrysler is less than 3%! Buick is 0.9% (point nine percent!) and Cadillac is 0.6% (point six percent!).

A kid here would drool over a 500+ horsepower 190MPH Alfa sedan over a ZL1. Hardly anyone even knows what a ZL1 *is* here. I still have only seen a handful of 6th Gen Camaros none were SS and most were convertibles, which makes me think they might have been rentals.