[freddyD]

Heres something-they are bringing the Ford Bronco back whats that tell you?People love small trucks and suv's.The pony car segment is small.Here in my city I see TONS of Mustangs,TONS of lifted trucks,and TONS of Dodge chargers,not so many camaro's-funny thing yesterday at my Public's supermarket-was parked a Z/28 red in color.The only one I have ever seen on the street!

[xray]

It's sad to see the decline of cars (especially performance/sport/muscle/whatever you want to call it) to SUVs, Crossovers, and trucks. I hope the Camaro isn't discontinued and if it is, i hope it lasts at least a few more years because I have yet to get one and this is my dream car.

[freddyD]

yeah-I hear you-If a car line does not show profit-It's byebye.

[m666etal]

In today's times people rather buy a luxury car/suv for 40 to 50k instead of a non luxury brand for the same price. I don't think that's going to change ever.

A CPO Porche Macan can come for 50k and you can easily get a CPO BMW/Merc for 30 to 35k.

Unless I can afford to keep 3 cars, this will probably be my last Camaro. Owned the 5th Gen and now the 6th, but as the family grows bigger it just seems like this won't work out. Prefer going for a 7 seater in the future or if I desperately want a sports car I might look at the M3 (because it has 4 doors )

[COmaro]

Originally Posted by Drew66

Now lets look at Ford's performance car lineup: OK I have to be honest they have 1 car that has 5 or 6 different models that competes with itself and Chrysler and Chevy.

I look at Ford's performance car lineup and I see at least SIX cars:

Ford GT
Mustang - As you mentions, many variants
Taurus SHO (365 HP twin turbo V6, AWD)
Fusion Sport - (325HP Twin Turbo V6, AWD, nice suspension and interior)
Focus RS (AWD) and ST
Fiesta ST

It is flying under the radar, but Lincoln has the MKZ (based on the Fusion) with a 400HP twin turbo V6 and AWD. Ford could drop that engine into the Fusion.....

It can be argued that the new mid-engine 'Vette matches up with the Ford GT, Camaro vs. Mustang, SS vs. Taurus SHO, but Chevy has nothing to compete with Fusion Sport, Focus RS/ST or Fiesta ST. In my neck of the woods, you see a lot more Focus ST than any non-rental Camaros, but both Focus ST and Camaro are far outsold by WRX/STi, Audi, BMW AWD, Golf R, etc. You even see more Porsche than Camaro, because they can be had with AWD. You see more Porsches here than Corvettes.

Chevy should have thought of putting the ATS AWD system under the Camaro. I think the costs on the Camaro just went too high. I guarantee if there is a 7th Gen Camaro (or 7th gen Mustang), AWD will be there. It has to be, because the competition is eating them alive.

It will be interesting to see how the Challenger GT sells. I'm sure if it looks good, Chrysler will roll the Hemi out to the AWD platform, they sold AWD Hemi Chargers, 300's and Magnums for years.

There are rumors that the Hellcat Demon will be AWD. Dodge has already said it will have 315 Drag radials on all four corners. There is no reason to do that is there? Oh wait, there *is* one reason.

[AZCamaroFan]

if you have been seeing ford gt's somewhere i'd get my eyes checked.

[Drew66]

Originally Posted by COmaro

I look at Ford's performance car lineup and I see at least SIX cars:

Ford GT
Mustang - As you mentions, many variants
Taurus SHO (365 HP twin turbo V6, AWD)
Fusion Sport - (325HP Twin Turbo V6, AWD, nice suspension and interior)
Focus RS (AWD) and ST
Fiesta ST

It is flying under the radar, but Lincoln has the MKZ (based on the Fusion) with a 400HP twin turbo V6 and AWD. Ford could drop that engine into the Fusion.....

It can be argued that the new mid-engine 'Vette matches up with the Ford GT, Camaro vs. Mustang, SS vs. Taurus SHO, but Chevy has nothing to compete with Fusion Sport, Focus RS/ST or Fiesta ST. In my neck of the woods, you see a lot more Focus ST than any non-rental Camaros, but both Focus ST and Camaro are far outsold by WRX/STi, Audi, BMW AWD, Golf R, etc. You even see more Porsche than Camaro, because they can be had with AWD. You see more Porsches here than Corvettes.

Chevy should have thought of putting the ATS AWD system under the Camaro. I think the costs on the Camaro just went too high. I guarantee if there is a 7th Gen Camaro (or 7th gen Mustang), AWD will be there. It has to be, because the competition is eating them alive.

It will be interesting to see how the Challenger GT sells. I'm sure if it looks good, Chrysler will roll the Hemi out to the AWD platform, they sold AWD Hemi Chargers, 300's and Magnums for years.

There are rumors that the Hellcat Demon will be AWD. Dodge has already said it will have 315 Drag radials on all four corners. There is no reason to do that is there? Oh wait, there *is* one reason.

You make some very good points. I thought this article was interesting: http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...l-wheel-drive/

Drew

[RenegadeXR]

Originally Posted by freddyD

Heres something-they are bringing the Ford Bronco back whats that tell you?People love small trucks and suv's.

After my car was in the shop for a week, I got to drive a Fiat 500X and it was like an epiphany of sorts. Never imagined I'd like it that much. I'm now shopping for a Jeep Renegade Trailhawk as my second car.

Why are small crossovers like this in demand?

1) Very cheap
2) Extremely easy to park
3) Even the cheapest base 4 cylinder has a turbo to get to highway speeds quickly
4) Small on the outside, very spacious on in the inside (total opposite of traditional American cars)
5) Fuel efficient
6) Tons of room for cargo with hatchback design, especially with fold-flat rear seats
7) Roof racks = even more storage
8) Despite the small size, many have decent towing capacity = even even more storage
9) More protection for your personal items than a pickup
10) Very good in rush hour traffic
11) Can seat 4 adults very comfortably (for a pickup, you'd need to opt for a crew cab making for an ungainly, long vehicle)
12) You can abuse them and not care about every little scuff.

And for the Renegade Trailhawk, which is kind of unique in its class, you get 4WD with very good off road capability, especially for the price. Folks with dedicated crawlers like Wranglers may scoff at this, but Renegade is comparatively waaaaay better than any of its competition at letting you explore the wilderness if you so desire.

Sure it may have to go to the shop (reliability is cited as a common concern), but the parts are pretty dang cheap. Even the aftermarket knows they can't get away with charing insane premiums (like many Camaro vendors do) and usually offer very fair deals.

Don't get me wrong, I am keeping my Camaro. Buy my next car is going to be a compact crossover. Europe has been buying these up like crazy, and we're only now realizing how useful these are on the other side of the pond.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by COmaro

I look at Ford's performance car lineup and I see at least SIX cars:

Ford GT
Mustang - As you mentions, many variants
Taurus SHO (365 HP twin turbo V6, AWD)
Fusion Sport - (325HP Twin Turbo V6, AWD, nice suspension and interior)
Focus RS (AWD) and ST
Fiesta ST

It is flying under the radar, but Lincoln has the MKZ (based on the Fusion) with a 400HP twin turbo V6 and AWD. Ford could drop that engine into the Fusion.....

It can be argued that the new mid-engine 'Vette matches up with the Ford GT, Camaro vs. Mustang, SS vs. Taurus SHO, but Chevy has nothing to compete with Fusion Sport, Focus RS/ST or Fiesta ST. In my neck of the woods, you see a lot more Focus ST than any non-rental Camaros, but both Focus ST and Camaro are far outsold by WRX/STi, Audi, BMW AWD, Golf R, etc. You even see more Porsche than Camaro, because they can be had with AWD. You see more Porsches here than Corvettes.

Chevy should have thought of putting the ATS AWD system under the Camaro. I think the costs on the Camaro just went too high. I guarantee if there is a 7th Gen Camaro (or 7th gen Mustang), AWD will be there. It has to be, because the competition is eating them alive.

It will be interesting to see how the Challenger GT sells. I'm sure if it looks good, Chrysler will roll the Hemi out to the AWD platform, they sold AWD Hemi Chargers, 300's and Magnums for years.

There are rumors that the Hellcat Demon will be AWD. Dodge has already said it will have 315 Drag radials on all four corners. There is no reason to do that is there? Oh wait, there *is* one reason.

Which competition is eating the Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers alive? The only real comparable sports coupes are the Genesis Coupe, 350Z, BRZ, FRS, and you can probably even throw in the Mini Cooper and BMW 2 series. I don't think any of those outsell the Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers by any significant margin, if at all.

[ForgedReality]

Chart shows June-October '15 when it should be '16...

[COmaro]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

Which competition is eating the Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers alive? The only real comparable sports coupes are the Genesis Coupe, 350Z, BRZ, FRS, and you can probably even throw in the Mini Cooper and BMW 2 series. I don't think any of those outsell the Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers by any significant margin, if at all.

People in Camaro's demographic don't wake up one day and say :"Hey, I have $30-50,000 burning a hole in my pocket, I think I'll go buy a "Sports Coupe" " They say, "I need a car, I want a cool car that is fast and sporty, what can I get?"

They cross shop Mustang/Camaro/Challenger with BMW, Audi, VM Golf R, WRX/STi, Focus RS/ST, 350Z, BRZ/T86, used Boxsters and Caymans, used Jaguars and Corvettes, and on and on. Then you get the people who cross shop with SUVs and pickups. I know a guy who went to a Ford dealer to buy a Mustang who walked out with a Raptor instead.

Subaru sold 33,279 WRX models in 2016. That is nearly half as many as the entire Camaro line. Do you really think those buyers didn't at least consider the "Sport Coupes"? Audi sold 31528 A3s and 34678 A4s. VW sells 5-7000 Golf Rs, Ford sells 12,000 Focus STs. A large number of those sales take away from what might have been a Camaro sale.

My 26 year old son is motorhead, and he makes enough money to buy any car he wants up to $75K or so. He considered a 'Vette, a GT350, a Focus RS, a used Cayman, an ATS-V, an STi, a BRZ, a Camaro SS, a Hellcat, a 2015 Z/28. He ended up buying a brand new Golf R, because it is fast, handles great, has a beautiful interior, AWD, and a hatch so he can haul at least some some stuff around. This isn't unusual, this is the norm. It isn't 1979 where your choices were a Camaro, a Firebird or a Mustang.

I don't think GM's bean counters are joyously examining Camaro's sales and thinking to themselves, "Well, at least we are second in sales among "Sports Coupes".

[IOMike]

Originally Posted by ron scubadiver

I agree. On Facebook 90% of what I see now is political. It's just as bad as before the election.

Between the election and protests I cancelled Facebook.

My quality of life has increased significantly.

Anyone find it odd that Ford is making the Mustang into a Mustamaro if the Mustang is selling so well? Just about every change they are making to the Mustang is making it more like the Camaro, the front end especially.

Given the sales of the Camaro, I see the 7th gen as being a bit more revolutionary as far as styling.

[VCSRT]

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

Those are dismal numbers; winter time or not. Curious to see Mustang sales once MY 18 starts hitting the showrooms. It's more than a refresh and with the expected hp bump and new for Mustang content, I would expect the msrp to be more in line with the Camaro, but we'll see.

According to Mustang6, expect no more than a $500-$1000 increase....

[camaroalltheway]

The Camaro is fast, fun, cool. Its my favorite toy to play with. It doesn't do everything but it does some things really really well. I feel like my SUV is the all around full package and more useful in so many ways and I would always own the SUV over the Camaro. I feel like most people would do the same.