[Ian SS]

Originally Posted by AndyUK

Yeah and I'm sure profit margin factored nowhere in anyone's decision process for making those recommendations.

[DisturbedSS]

Originally Posted by BigD6.6

I'm in Phoenix and when I was looking for a Performance shop I was hard pressed to find 5, I would be interested in knowing where the other 5 Speed shops are.
The main players that specialized in LS platforms are J&R Performance, Top Gear, CPR, Extreme and RPM. The others seem to do all brands and not focus on one in particular. After interviewing and researching the big 5 I went with J&R, besides great referrals they also specialize in Camaro's. Seems like everytime I've been there its a shop full of Camaros which makes me feel more comfortable knowing they specialize in Camaros.
Not to get to far off topic, I went with the Maggie Heartbeat on my 5th. I've seen a couple of the 6th gens they put Maggies on and I'm leaning towards upgrading to a 6th Gen myself, waiting for the 1LE and then will decide.

I ended up with Chucks Speed shop..been around forever and they were the lowest bid. Totally missed J&R..their website was so bad, that was enough for me to pass it over. A total gear head buddy of mine suggested them however - after the fact, so you probably picked a good one. That gear head buddy is too lazy to install it for me.

Honestly, its not a difficult install, my car is stock and Im using the supplied tune so there was no reason to limit my choices to a Camaro specialist. If I was to go AM tune, then J&R would have been the right choice - IF they were price competitive - cant speak to that.

1 thing to consider is once you go 3rd party tune on the maggie setup - it immediately voids their supplied 3yr powertrain warantee. I called them direct to confirm that and its also printed in their install guide -changing fuel and spark curve is a no go. Introducing added stress on a brand new car with no warantee of some kind is rolling the dice, then again this a forum of 20 something parts swappers..so I doubt that factors in.

The other shops you didnt mention were: Lopers, AZ automasters, Goodspeed, ADS and APM.

S/C a V6? man...I dont know. A TVS 2300 may not be very efficient for a car under 400HP. You normally see turbos on a 6.

[DisturbedSS]

Originally Posted by AndyUK

Yeah and I'm sure profit margin factored nowhere in anyone's decision process for making those recommendations.

May want to think your comment through a bit more...

so its smart for a shops only criteria to recommend the highest margined item to a customer? I think profit margin takes a bigger hit when you end up going to another shop - aka ZERO profit margin. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge prior to purchase can see past that. Of the 10 shops, I only came across 1 who did that - ironically they were also the highest cost shop.

A S/C should be tailored to what you are using it for and what parts you intend to keep/swap...period. 9 of the 10 used THAT criteria.

[DisturbedSS]

Originally Posted by slo_1ss

[AndyUK]

Originally Posted by DisturbedSS

May want to think your comment through a bit more...

so its smart for a shops only criteria to recommend the highest margined item to a customer? I think profit margin takes a bigger hit when you end up going to another shop - aka ZERO profit margin. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge prior to purchase can see past that. Of the 10 shops, I only came across 1 who did that - ironically they were also the highest cost shop.

A S/C should be tailored to what you are using it for and what parts you intend to keep/swap...period. 9 of the 10 used THAT criteria.

where did I say it was the only criteria?
did you ask any of the shops which S/C's they were registered dealers for or what they had previously installed?

you said you gave no clues or guidance on what to recommend, so obviously not, but if a shop is signed up with magnusson but not the other two, who do you think they are going to recommend? (and so on)

I've never been to a shop that hasn't had a preference on manufacturer for a variety of reasons, support and profit being the main two. I think its pretty naive to think that all of the shops you called have installed all three superchargers on a Camaro (the whipple isn't even out yet for a start) and that they don't have some kind of preference based on factors other than what they have direct experience of being "the best" for your application.

Based on what you've said your requirements are, the simplest route for you probably is a PD and probably the easiest to support from the shops point of view. But at this point I can't see how a shop can possibly seriously recommend you to/not to get a whipple as its not even out yet, so that would raise alarm bells for me.

There's also kenne bell, which resellers tend to hate because they sell direct. Ive seen a lot of shops disparage them but end users who have them talk very highly... i can't think why resellers might want to disuade people from a product they dont make a resellers margin on.

You blindly trusted a shop on your Mustang, and look how that ended up for you.

[Daves1SS]

Originally Posted by E-Ray

Remember, these tunes Edelbrock are using are very mild and running only 6 lbs of boost. I am am also running there canned tune but the difference is unreal. The increase in torque is very noticeable. I plan on going to a local track and make a couple of runs. When I do I'll post them.

I totally agree with you on the FEEL of the car. The increase in torque is absolutely huge and extremely noticeable, and comes on strong at light throttle application too. What has me baffled with this Edelbrock kit thus far is the very few track times I've uncovered in searching. Edelbrock says pretty much a 12 flat but NEVER mentions the MPH but then shows that pathetic 116 mph pass.
Then, there's a guy on YouTube that appears to be from Nevada, just put an Eforce on his '16 M6 SS and ran 12.2 @ 117. I asked him what the DA was and he never replied. Then, I see this video today where a CAI/catback SS nearly keeps pace with an Edelbrock '16 SS....

https://youtu.be/lB5cevpwPRQ

.....and it makes me think, good Lord could the E-force kit on our cars with the Edelbrock canned tune really only be good for 116-118 trap speeds? That's hardly better than stock and does NOT jive with 540+ whp/wtq. Guess I'm just a little confused at how my car feels really fast, but nobody else so far seems to be having decent track results. If I was hearing of 12.2 at 124 mph on a 2.1 sec 60' time, I would feel way better than this 117 mph and a near stock Camaro SS nearly keeping up with an E-force car.

I think we have the proper hardware. Is the Edelbrock canned tune THAT dialed back when at WOT, and maybe more agressive during part throttle driving making it feel really fast? Maybe I just need to go to the track soon and see how mine does. Again, I'm most curious of the trap speed. I already know I won't hook well on my street tires.

[DisturbedSS]

Originally Posted by AndyUK

where did I say it was the only criteria?
did you ask any of the shops which S/C's they were registered dealers for or what they had previously installed?

you said you gave no clues or guidance on what to recommend, so obviously not, but if a shop is signed up with magnuson but not the other two, who do you think they are going to recommend? (and so on)

I've never been to a shop that hasn't had a preference on manufacturer for a variety of reasons, support and profit being the main two. I think its pretty naive to think that all of the shops you called have installed all three superchargers on a Camaro (the whipple isn't even out yet for a start) and that they don't have some kind of preference based on factors other than what they have direct experience of being "the best" for your application.

Based on what you've said your requirements are, the simplest route for you probably is a PD and probably the easiest to support from the shops point of view. But at this point I can't see how a shop can possibly seriously recommend you to/not to get a whipple as its not even out yet, so that would raise alarm bells for me.

There's also kenne bell, which resellers tend to hate because they sell direct. Ive seen a lot of shops disparage them but end users who have them talk very highly... i can't think why resellers might want to disuade people from a product they dont make a resellers margin on.

You blindly trusted a shop on your Mustang, and look how that ended up for you.

Ended up with a Magnuson kit, by far the most suggested for staying almost all stock and keeping a powertrain warantee through Magnuson - installation is Wed next week. Whipple, Procharger, Magnuson and Edelbrock all have blowers available right now for 2016 and up. 1 guy had a Whipple sitting on a shelf for an SS behind the counter.

No offense to anyone here, but advice based off forums vs speed shops/tuners with far superior experience is miles apart in decision making relevance. Much like making financial decisions based strictly on Yahoo Finance headlines.

I was always taught that a roots style blower with output of 500-600HP was the sweet spot for a safe, fun to drive, reliable and fully trackable DD. Guys who blow put internals, tack on high levels of boost, add NOS etc. then use as DDs are just dangerous on city streets. Thats what you get in forums and see plastered all over YouTube...aka the guys who can only pronounce words that start with "FU". 100% useless unless Im playing GTA.

I dont blindly do anything when large sums of money are involved...theres far more to the Mustang story, but cant imagine anyone caring to hear it. Lets just say my family has ties to Ford racing and the car was never beat in straight line tracking (I wasnt the driver).

Personally, I only do curved tracks maybe twice a year where handling and driving skill are more important than HP numbers. Honestly its 10x more of a thrill as well. We have several performance driving schools here and it was worth the money to go through the program.

[DisturbedSS]

Give it a rest...

As to the whipple comment, I saw one with my own 2 eyes boxed, ready to install for a 2016 SS and no, I was not in the Matrix. I did not ask if it was an Authorized dealer release or if he has a buddy at Whipple, regardless of the PUBLIC release in Sep even though my calendar says "October"...lol. Could have pulled the trigger then and there, but based on my needs it was determined the Magnuson was a much better solution with the intention to keep the car mostly stock and having a powertrain warantee because thats a MAJOR change to engine dynamics. Ive learned first hand not covering yourself leads to major disappointment if the worst occurs.

As for the thread topic, if racing in straight lines is your basis for performance and/or against others, theres absolutely nothing wrong with that. Thats whats ingrained in peoples heads and endlessly referenced in forums. I thoroughly enjoy driving down the rare empty street here that way...its a blast and minimal skill necessary.

Every sanctioned racing sport (sans NHRA) does not compete in straight lines, but curved courses. Thats just my preference for measuring performance. If its not a crowd pleaser...oh well. Maybe NASCAR can line up the drivers and have them drive straight down an abandoned airstrip for a mile, declaring the first one to hit dirt the winner - ridiculous right?

The real skill in straight line driving is Vehicle prep - mating the right performance parts, tuning them and adjusting for atmosphere (weather, elevation)..etc. Guys who master that are the ones I take advice from. Independent trackers I know personally would NEVER take a fresh, very expensive, new model year car off a lot, rip out half the parts, tear out the back seats and install a cage - really?. The ones I know take a shell of a car, build it from the ground up and turn them into something special. They are the real showstoppers if youve ever been to a car show.

Moving on....

[DisturbedSS]

Originally Posted by AndyUK

You need to check your facts pal. The '16 Camaro whipple has not been released yet. It flat out hasnt. Go ask whipple or phasetek or any of the other suppliers.

Your just making yourself look foolish now.

Heres the Whipple site: https://whipplesuperchargers.com/ind...product_id=369

"COMING IN SEPTEMBER 2016"

I would sue them for false advertising - maybe you can get a Whipple with an out of court settlement.

I physically looked at the contents of the box marked "SSCamro1617xxxx" in the speed shop, but whatever, who cares. The funny thing is I bought a Magnuson yet am still discussing whether or not I actually saw a real Whipple. hilarious.

Have a great life dude, you just became online vapor.

[Daves1SS]

Back to the topic of the original post and to add onto my previous post:
I located this article that made me feel better and made me not fret about the few times and more importantly low trap speeds I've seen posted with the E-force.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/chasi...one-bolt-time/

The article says the trap speeds were consistently in the mid 120's which is where I would have expected them to be. They were just dumb asses for showing that mid 12 @ 116 pass in the YouTube video where something clearly went wrong. Lol.

[GirlyNFG]

I ran mine, but had issues... mostly because I need the driver mod. But, I did trap at 129.9... sadly, I couldnt get it off the line. So far I have 8 passes with the current build minus the meth... I'll be back at redlist 12/3 and hopefully sooner at Irwindale to get more seat time in. M6 problems FML. She's still wicked though

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by Daves1SS

Back to the topic of the original post and to add onto my previous post:
I located this article that made me feel better and made me not fret about the few times and more importantly low trap speeds I've seen posted with the E-force.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/chasi...one-bolt-time/

The article says the trap speeds were consistently in the mid 120's which is where I would have expected them to be. They were just dumb asses for showing that mid 12 @ 116 pass in the YouTube video where something clearly went wrong. Lol.

Yeah sometimes weird stuff happens. There were some supercharged cars at the strip the other day that were not running to expectation. One was a Callaway 5th Gen Camaro, which ran 12.2@114. He had street tires and maybe he was spinning? My bone stock '17 SS ran 12.0@114 that night for comparison. Also talked to a guy with a 6G Mustang with drag radials and 600 supercharged hp. It too ran 12s, but trapped 119. In his case I suspect his clutch was slipping under load, because he said he could smell it.

[Gmanuel]

Originally Posted by GirlyNFG

I ran mine, but had issues... mostly because I need the driver mod. But, I did trap at 129.9... sadly, I couldnt get it off the line. So far I have 8 passes with the current build minus the meth... I'll be back at redlist 12/3 and hopefully sooner at Irwindale to get more seat time in. M6 problems FML. She's still wicked though

130 at what power level? Clutch slip? Your build is very similar to the route I would take if I went procharger, so I'm curious how the setup performs.

[GirlyNFG]

Originally Posted by Gmanuel

130 at what power level? Clutch slip? Your build is very similar to the route I would take if I went procharger, so I'm curious how the setup performs.

I was making about 740 that day... Minus whatever the high heat robbed. My clutch isn't slipping yet...