[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Atomic Ed

Thanks for your reviews Speedy and yonson. I'm glad to see someone else come to basically the same conclusions that I have; MAP fluctuations and heat.

The belt is doing fine, no slippage.

I sent the top screen shot of the MAP sensor to Edelbrock and they have already responded! They also think that the MAP readings are fluctuating too much. I just finished an actuator test with a hand vacuum pump and sent them the results. We'll see what they say.

Octane setup is for 91, no 93 around here and only one place for 92.

This run was the third run for the day. (Took me two runs to figure the software out.) So I suspect the SC was heat soaked somewhat. My thinking is I need to go after the heat soaking/removal as a project to improve overall performance (and probably improve knock retard). I'll throw up another thread to gather ideas later or if you have some, I'd like to hear them.

I've been fiddling with Euro builds, so I speak the lambda lingo pretty well. Gotta say these things are a lot simpler that the Audi's where you have literally controllers controlling other controllers in series.

Regardless of this discussion, the E-Force is running great. I just like to dig in to these systems and learn new things. It still hits 450 ft.-lbs. at 2500 rpm and 560 rwhp as it sets.

If this was the 3rd good hit and your IATs were 182, then that's not bad in 90 degree ambient. Other than a larger heat exchanger there's not a lot more you can do there. The front of the Camaro seems to have some good air flow so that shouldn't be an issue.

That tune on 91 is what I'd call pretty good. Timing and AFR look good. The 1 deg of STKR isn't a huge deal. Better safe than sorry on knock sensor sensitivity, especially on 91 octane.

The MAP sensor would be something I'd have concerns about. But based on everything you showed and stated, everything else looks good for out of the box setup.

[Atomic Ed]

Again, thanks for your input Speedy.

Just got a response back from Edelbrock. (Man, they are quick to respond!) They stated they have seen this kind of MAP over-response before on another setup. The solution was to add in an orifice to the actuator hose to soften the vacuum signal. Makes sense. An orifice should be on its way soon from Edelbrock.

As for the high IAT's and cooling; I may try either Water Wetter or Evans Cooling first and see if that helps. A larger heat exchanger may be an option also. I may also try a cooler thermostat. I know It won't help much, but might make me feel better. My only concern about adding in a lower range thermostat is if it will it keep me in warm-up/open loop mode if I don't hit the operating temp the ECM is expecting. Regardless, some improvements on overall heat rejection seem to be in order.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Atomic Ed

Again, thanks for your input Speedy.

Just got a response back from Edelbrock. (Man, they are quick to respond!) They stated they have seen this kind of MAP over-response before on another setup. The solution was to add in an orifice to the actuator hose to soften the vacuum signal. Makes sense. An orifice should be on its way soon from Edelbrock.

As for the high IAT's and cooling; I may try either Water Wetter or Evans Cooling first and see if that helps. A larger heat exchanger may be an option also. I may also try a cooler thermostat. I know It won't help much, but might make me feel better. My only concern about adding in a lower range thermostat is if it will it keep me in warm-up/open loop mode if I don't hit the operating temp the ECM is expecting. Regardless, some improvements on overall heat rejection seem to be in order.

I'd skip the Water Wetter and Evans. I don't think Water Wetter does much and Evans is flammable (I've seen it). Save your money there is my recommendation. A 180° t-stat I'd definitely do. You should be fine for start up operating temp with that and it will help over all cooling. That's what I run in the Challenger.

One other thing you can check is the intercooler pump speed (GPH or LPH). Too fast and it doesn't give enough resident time in the heat exchanger. Too slow and it doesn't get enough heat away from the intercooler. Edelbrock likely did their homework on that, but it couldn't hurt to cross check their math from a thermal dynamics perspective. Again, 182 after three hard passes isn't bad at all though.

Glad to hear they got a solution to the MAP dealio. Get that squared away and drive it like you stole it and call it good IMO.

[toohighpsi]

Adding an orifice to the bypass will impact part throttle driveability, it shoudn't have any change on the MAP at WOT (other than delay the onset of boost). I think the Edelbrock has the MAP sensor mounted in one of the ports (like #8?) if that is the case it would possibly be the cause of the erratic MAP signal that you see. Most all of the engine controls are dominated by MAF so I wouldn't be terribly worried about this.

I do think the IATs seem pretty high for what I'm used to, I normally only see a 20-25 degree rise in temp during a 1/4 mile pass (even with the small Maggie coolant tank) and don't like to see the IAT hit much over 140-150F. You were hitting 180+; from the R2300 compressor map, the delta T at 13K rpm and 7 psi is 96 degrees F, so if the SC inlet is 90F you would have engine air inlet temp of about 186 without using any intercoolers.

Now, I do find it hard to believe that you can make 560 RWHP with these inlet temps, unless it manages to stay cool on the dyno and this is symptom that happens on the street -or- the inlet air temp sensor is faulty or incorrectly calibrated. Does the IAT match ambient temp when the car is fully cooled off?

Even so I'd chack a couple things - Is your IC pump running? Double check the lines to make sure that they are connected correctly in the system. is these any lines kinked or pinched from the install?

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

Adding an orifice to the bypass will impact part throttle driveability, it shoudn't have any change on the MAP at WOT (other than delay the onset of boost). I think the Edelbrock has the MAP sensor mounted in one of the ports (like #8?) if that is the case it would possibly be the cause of the erratic MAP signal that you see. Most all of the engine controls are dominated by MAF so I wouldn't be terribly worried about this.

I do think the IATs seem pretty high for what I'm used to, I normally only see a 20-25 degree rise in temp during a 1/4 mile pass (even with the small Maggie coolant tank) and don't like to see the IAT hit much over 140-150F. You were hitting 180+; from the R2300 compressor map, the delta T at 13K rpm and 7 psi is 96 degrees F, so if the SC inlet is 90F you would have engine air inlet temp of about 186 without using any intercoolers.

Now, I do find it hard to believe that you can make 560 RWHP with these inlet temps, unless it manages to stay cool on the dyno and this is symptom that happens on the street -or- the inlet air temp sensor is faulty or incorrectly calibrated. Does the IAT match ambient temp when the car is fully cooled off?

Even so I'd chack a couple things - Is your IC pump running? Double check the lines to make sure that they are connected correctly in the system. is these any lines kinked or pinched from the install?

This is good info, especially the Delta T info for 7psi.

[Daves1SS]

Hoping to be able scan and log mine soon. However the live link download they sent me the link to download, downloads just fine......but when you open the SCT app it displays this, and won't let you proceed. Guess I'm dead in the water until SCT contacts me, which Edelbrock said they should. It does this on my work computer with Windows 7, and my laptop just the same with Windows 8. Boo!! Good news is, the car appears to be running properly ever since I did the actuator vacuum test. Maybe I somehow fixed it/unstuck it.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Daves1SS

Hoping to be able scan and log mine soon. However the live link download they sent me the link to download, downloads just fine......but when you open the SCT app it displays this, and won't let you proceed. Guess I'm dead in the water until SCT contacts me, which Edelbrock said they should. It does this on my work computer with Windows 7, and my laptop just the same with Windows 8. Boo!! Good news is, the car appears to be running properly ever since I did the actuator vacuum test. Maybe I somehow fixed it/unstuck it.

Did you try running the software as "administrator"? Right click yadda yadda.

[Daves1SS]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Did you try running the software as "administrator"? Right click yadda yadda.

Sure didn't, but the laptop is now dead and the cord is at home (DOH) so I will look at that tomorrow. I also already have an email in from SCT and they want to remote link in and get it fixed for me. Cool. That was fast. I'm sure it will get resolved tomorrow.

[Atomic Ed]

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

Adding an orifice to the bypass will impact part throttle driveability, it shoudn't have any change on the MAP at WOT (other than delay the onset of boost). I think the Edelbrock has the MAP sensor mounted in one of the ports (like #8?) if that is the case it would possibly be the cause of the erratic MAP signal that you see. Most all of the engine controls are dominated by MAF so I wouldn't be terribly worried about this.

I do think the IATs seem pretty high for what I'm used to, I normally only see a 20-25 degree rise in temp during a 1/4 mile pass (even with the small Maggie coolant tank) and don't like to see the IAT hit much over 140-150F. You were hitting 180+; from the R2300 compressor map, the delta T at 13K rpm and 7 psi is 96 degrees F, so if the SC inlet is 90F you would have engine air inlet temp of about 186 without using any intercoolers.

Now, I do find it hard to believe that you can make 560 RWHP with these inlet temps, unless it manages to stay cool on the dyno and this is symptom that happens on the street -or- the inlet air temp sensor is faulty or incorrectly calibrated. Does the IAT match ambient temp when the car is fully cooled off?

Even so I'd chack a couple things - Is your IC pump running? Double check the lines to make sure that they are connected correctly in the system. is these any lines kinked or pinched from the install?

Thanks for the informative reply. The sawtooth pattern of the MAP readings bugs me, but you and yonson have me thinking its acceptable for now. I'll give the orifice a try since its on its way, but if I don't like it, I can pull it out.

Is the erratic MAP readings due to actual pressure pulsation from the design of the TVS assembly? if so, seems to me there's nothing to fix.

Nice info on the delta T. Gonna go with your thoughts and investigate the intercooler and its pump. My gut told me that 180+ IAT is too high, even in this heat. Never got that high on a turbo set up. In one of my correspondences with Edelbrock, I asked them if there is any upgrades available for the intercooler or "bricks" to get the IAT down. Haven't heard back yet on that.

I may temporarily install a thermocouple in-line with the intercooler and see what delta T I'm getting if the pump is working OK. I'm already thinking about an improved (or secondary) intercooler if the IC outlet temps say there is some room for improvement.

I will be also looking at an improved radiator and a 180 (170, 160?) degree t-stat. Question: Do you know if a 160 degree t-stat will keep me in open loop?

Nice technical discussion here. We need more of these.

[Daves1SS]

I'm learning a lot reading this too.

[Speedy1975]

I definitely wouldn't go below a 170 T-stat. A 180 is the sweet spot from what I've worked with in the past. Find some other folks with the Edelbrock or Magnuson on their cars and see if they're savvy enough to data log their IATs. If they're all lining up then that's telling. If yours are off, you'll know to check some things. I think there are a couple other guys on here with SCs.

[Atomic Ed]

OK Dave. Waiting on you to get hooked and do some data logging.

[Daves1SS]

Originally Posted by Atomic Ed

OK Dave. Waiting on you to get hooked and do some data logging.

Soon!! I have a conference call set up with SCT tomorrow morning late to fix my software bug.

[Daves1SS]

Well I finally got some good logs. I went out during lunch today and got many WOT logs. It was 86 degrees out with a DA of 2200'. Humidity is around 60%. I saw a max IAT or 71 C which is 160 F. The car felt strong most of the time, but sometimes I felt a bit of lag in the power (barely noticeable). This would have been the KR that I saw from time to time (not always, just at times). Most of the time it was under 1 degree, but had a few times where it got to 2 degrees with a peak of 2.7 degrees. At that time, timing was probably 4 or 5 degrees at most. Peak timing at 0 KR was 15.

The KR is a little concerning to me. I just sent the logs to Edelbrock so they can review.