[1KillerSS]

Originally Posted by LesBaer

..........Lastly, don't all turbos have more lag than a SC regardless of where they're placed - or is this something you've already solved and are just fine tuning?

Placement location, aside. Smaller, properly sized tutbos, will have little to no lagg. You wont have the instant hit that a SC car has, but the days of drinking a cup of coffee while your waiting on your turbos to spool are gone....

[Goertz]

The thing is we were trying to do something with the scavenger pump that it was never designed to do. This isea was mostly my dad's and it seeded to work but in the end proved that it needs to stay a scavenger only pump.

It was well worth the try though. If nobody ever tried anything new we wouldn't even have cars...

[LesBaer]

Thanks for the responses guys. A lot of this is a learning process for me, so I just want to be clear in that being the reason for my questions/comments. It really is great to see someone pushing the envelope and doing things as openly and at the pace at which you're doing them. I hope I didn't come off the wrong way.

[toohighpsi]

Originally Posted by 1KillerSS

Placement location, aside. Smaller, properly sized tutbos, will have little to no lagg. You wont have the instant hit that a SC car has, but the days of drinking a cup of coffee while your waiting on your turbos to spool are gone....

Somebody need to tell that to the new Nissan Qashqai 1.6L Direct Injection Turbo engine with a manual transmission I'm driving over here in Europe this week. After a few days in it so far, it's clear that there hasn't been any appreciable improvement in turbo response in the past 10 years or so from an engine standpoint. In fact, as engine sizes have continued to decrease and boost levels have risen, the lag issues seem even worse. If anything, the vehicles that have an automatic transmission have been able to manipulate the operating range of the engine to minimize the perceived lag, but in a manual - not a bit acceptable to those of us used to a reasonable sized NA engine.

[1KillerSS]

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

Somebody need to tell that to the new Nissan Qashqai 1.6L Direct Injection Turbo engine with a manual transmission I'm driving over here in Europe this week. After a few days in it so far, it's clear that there hasn't been any appreciable improvement in turbo response in the past 10 years or so from an engine standpoint. In fact, as engine sizes have continued to decrease and boost levels have risen, the lag issues seem even worse. If anything, the vehicles that have an automatic transmission have been able to manipulate the operating range of the engine to minimize the perceived lag, but in a manual - not a bit acceptable to those of us used to a reasonable sized NA engine.

Not fair really, your talking about SUV's or Crossover type vehicals. At least what I mean to say is that your not comparing that to high performance car sports car. The difference in throttle response alone, is pretty dramatic.

[Fergy]

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

Somebody need to tell that to the new Nissan Qashqai 1.6L Direct Injection Turbo engine with a manual transmission I'm driving over here in Europe this week. After a few days in it so far, it's clear that there hasn't been any appreciable improvement in turbo response in the past 10 years or so from an engine standpoint. In fact, as engine sizes have continued to decrease and boost levels have risen, the lag issues seem even worse. If anything, the vehicles that have an automatic transmission have been able to manipulate the operating range of the engine to minimize the perceived lag, but in a manual - not a bit acceptable to those of us used to a reasonable sized NA engine.

I'm pretty sure they engineer these cars to be fuel efficient, so hitting the boost curve early isn't in their interest. the turbo is there to aid its small output when lets say going up a steep incline or passing. with a different sized turbo it would probably be fun to drive, maybe even just a tune if it has boost control based on ecu paramaters

[oachalon]

Originally Posted by 1KillerSS

Not fair really, your talking about SUV's or Crossover type vehicals. At least what I mean to say is that your not comparing that to high performance car sports car. The difference in throttle response alone, is pretty dramatic.

I havent driven a turbo car that doesnt have lag yet. The 2.0T in the Camaro has quite a bit of turbo lag, GM's 3.6TT in the ATS-V has turbo lag, my friends aftermarket cars have turbo lag.

They are getting better, but the lag is there compared to a supercharged system. I am not saying its bad, but so far when people have said there is no lag at all, i haven't seen that true.

[Goertz]

This hole rear mount ordeal is s learning experience for us aswell.

Most things i have no problem being fully open with for design and how things function. Some things i have are trade secrets though like some of the finer details of my intake manifold and header building design. But for the most part I'm a open book and have no problem sharing.

I'm not a engine builder, I'm pretty much just a induction system designer and fabricator handling all aspects of intake manifold, header, or turbo design. My experience is over 10 years of traditional turbocharging on pro level import drag card. I figure if i have what it takes to design out a induction system for a 2.0 liter 4 banger to make over 1200whp i can easily handle a 6.2 v8

[1KillerSS]

Originally Posted by oachalon

I haven't driven a turbo car that doesn't have lag yet. The 2.0T in the Camaro has quite a bit of turbo lag, GM's 3.6TT in the ATS-V has turbo lag, my friends aftermarket cars have turbo lag.

They are getting better, but the lag is there compared to a supercharged system. I am not saying its bad, but so far when people have said there is no lag at all, i haven't seen that true.

Most production cars that are turbo, have lag, I completely agree with that. What I should have said, was that a properly built car, with proper turbo sizes, can spool extremely fast, with, very little lag.


I'm at full boost at 3k, that's with journal bearing turbos. That's exceptional, compared to what turbos felt in late90's and early 2000's.

I had the opportunity to test drive and modify cars from that day in much the same way we're doing with our Camaro's, in today's world, while working for a dyno shop, in my younger years. I can see a major difference between the improvements in lag.

[toohighpsi]

Originally Posted by Fergy

I'm pretty sure they engineer these cars to be fuel efficient, so hitting the boost curve early isn't in their interest. the turbo is there to aid its small output when lets say going up a steep incline or passing. with a different sized turbo it would probably be fun to drive, maybe even just a tune if it has boost control based on ecu paramaters

European cars are engineered to use the smallest engine possible and all of their focus is around "time to torque" or boost response due to the scavenging possible with VVT and a DI engine. I'm always intrigued when I hear the "no lag" statement and wonder if some revolutionary improvement has been made (I've been in the boosting industry for the majority of my life). I still remember when Porsche revealed their VGT for the flat 6 at the Dresden Boosting Conference a few years ago. The plot they used to show the improvements still displayed almost 2 seconds of lag. Hardly what I would consider a lag-less system.

Best turbo car I have driven lately is the Volvo 2.0L found in the new XC60 and XC90. It has an compound SuperTurbo system that leaves a great impression of driving a large engine when engine downsizing is required to meet fuel economy requirements.

[Goertz]

little bit of progress today.

I just got home from work and pops had machined out my new 2016 LT1 oil pressure sending unit to 1/8npt adapter sandwich

Tomorrow morning I pickup my new -4an 15ft custom made line for $70
Pops is just modifying the factory oil cap tom for me so we can get oil returned there but will be machining a nice billet one out soon.

Hopefully tomorrow evening we can be back up and running.

Keep you guys posted as usual. Got to go get ready for sleep apnea sleep study test down at VA right now....

[MIAMI2SSRS]

Thank you for all the information you sharing on this thread. Definitel very interesting!!!

Hoping you achieve the desired results!!

[laynlo15]

Very interesting posts on forced induction. Keep up the great work.

[Goertz]

Got everything to start re plumbing the oil system. Just got home from work so going eat then start running lines. With a bit of luck will be done shortly and might even try and take it to track still