[1295/SS]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Explain to me how they should be in the same class? I'm not being a smart ass, I'm legitimately asking. They have two things in common that I can see.

1. Made buy a US auto maker. (notice I did not say made in the US )
2. They have two doors, i.e. coupe models.

Other than that the Challenger has zero in common with either the Mustang or the Camaro. The Challenger is a MUSCLE CAR not a SPORT CAR like the Mustang and Camaro. Two different classes of car.

You can't even say they're really priced similarly since the Camaro and Challenger are so much more expensive than the Mustang.




See above. I'm curious why anyone thinks they are even remote competitors. Maybe because the magazines lump them together and folks are just used to that?



Agreed! I honestly hope they keep the Challenger as a larger muscle car rather than try to shrink it down to be something it's not. If anything they could make a Barracuda (or whatever since that's a Plymouth badge and shouldn't be used IMO ) a smaller sport car class vehicle to compete directly with the Mustang and Camaro, but for God's sake leave the Challenger alone.



You just made my point. It's a MUSCLE CAR, it will never be a sport car designed for carving corners. It's main purpose is to just put power down in a straight line so why even compare them?

I don't get caught up in titles so you can type in bold all you want, but they are competitors. The Camaro evolved into an all around performance car and the Dodge hasn't kept up and don't fool yourself thinking that they haven't tried desperately.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by 1295/SS

If you can find some traction, then MAYBE. I noticed you didn't mention any curves in the road.

Maybe its just me but in all my years of playing around on the streets I have never seen anyone racing through a twisty road, I did see it on TV though

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Maybe its just me but in all my years of playing around on the streets I have never seen anyone racing through a twisty road, I did see it on TV though

That's probably because challengers suck at it. The ZL1 I can have fun doing anything, not a one trick portly ok ***** cat.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Maybe its just me but in all my years of playing around on the streets I have never seen anyone racing through a twisty road, I did see it on TV though

You can't really begin to get into the capabilities of these cars on the street. Off and on ramps are the closest. Hitting 90 at wot on a sweeping on ramp or exiting similarly at 80 and holding it.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Explain to me how they should be in the same class? I'm not being a smart ass, I'm legitimately asking. They have two things in common that I can see.

1. Made buy a US auto maker. (notice I did not say made in the US )
2. They have two doors, i.e. coupe models.

Other than that the Challenger has zero in common with either the Mustang or the Camaro. The Challenger is a MUSCLE CAR not a SPORT CAR like the Mustang and Camaro. Two different classes of car.

You can't even say they're really priced similarly since the Camaro and Challenger are so much more expensive than the Mustang.




See above. I'm curious why anyone thinks they are even remote competitors. Maybe because the magazines lump them together and folks are just used to that?



Agreed! I honestly hope they keep the Challenger as a larger muscle car rather than try to shrink it down to be something it's not. If anything they could make a Barracuda (or whatever since that's a Plymouth badge and shouldn't be used IMO ) a smaller sport car class vehicle to compete directly with the Mustang and Camaro, but for God's sake leave the Challenger alone.



You just made my point. It's a MUSCLE CAR, it will never be a sport car designed for carving corners. It's main purpose is to just put power down in a straight line so why even compare them?

Fiat is not a US Automaker

[96MrBass]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Maybe its just me but in all my years of playing around on the streets I have never seen anyone racing through a twisty road, I did see it on TV though

I would think being a "car guy " that you are you would agree taking a 40 or 50k car and putting it on a road course takes some nuts. Less chance of getting it smashed up in a straight line.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by 96MrBass

I would think being a "car guy " that you are you would agree taking a 40 or 50k car and putting it on a road course takes some nuts. Less chance of getting it smashed up in a straight line.

I get it reading some recent posts of new cars wrecking on the track is tough read.

I was just commenting that Dodge focused on street performance with the Hellcat, and racing another car through twisties on the street is not really a popular option. I doubt any of us have ever seen this done. But straightline pulls whether dig or rolls are common. So did Dodge miss the mark?

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by 96MrBass

I would think being a "car guy " that you are you would agree taking a 40 or 50k car and putting it on a road course takes some nuts. Less chance of getting it smashed up in a straight line.

There is a far higher percentage wrecked on public roads than ever will be on a road course. You stand a better chance being totalled going to the gas station than a lap around VIR or your local track.

[detltu]

Originally Posted by 96MrBass

I would think being a "car guy " that you are you would agree taking a 40 or 50k car and putting it on a road course takes some nuts. Less chance of getting it smashed up in a straight line.

Honestly the first time is a little scary, but once you are out there it is by far the safest way to test the limits of your car. Granted if all you want to test is the acceleration from a dead stop, the drag strip is the place to be.

A well organized track day is safe enough that the only thing you really worry about is paying for brakes and tires.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by 1295/SS

I don't get caught up in titles so you can type in bold all you want, but they are competitors. The Camaro evolved into an all around performance car and the Dodge hasn't kept up and don't fool yourself thinking that they haven't tried desperately.

OK, then we'll agree to disagree. I've provided several facts to support my position and you've merely provided your opinion.

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

Fiat is not a US Automaker

You're dead right, and I honestly forgot that! I've edited my original post as now the only thing the Camaro and Challenger have in common is they're both two door cars LOL

Bench racing is fun, but at some point you do have to come back to reality. Putting a professional in a car and seeing what it can do around a track is cool to watch to know what is really possible, but for any of us mere mortals a few tenths of a second a lap will never make any difference. For the street, I'll take straight line power as that's where 100% of my "encounters" have been, as others have mentioned above.

Fun discussion though.

[96MrBass]

Originally Posted by detltu

Honestly the first time is a little scary, but once you are out there it is by far the safest way to test the limits of your car. Granted if all you want to test is the acceleration from a dead stop, the drag strip is the place to be.

A well organized track day is safe enough that the only thing you really worry about is paying for brakes and tires.

I can see it being fun for sure and definitely shows a car's full potential ANY manufacturer can throw a bunch of hp in a car and let her rip down a straight line.

[96MrBass]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

There is a far higher percentage wrecked on public roads than ever will be on a road course. You stand a better chance being totalled going to the gas station than a lap around VIR or your local track.

Agreed public roads are scary enough lol.

[96MrBass]

[QUOTE=newmoon;9198417]I get it reading some recent posts of new cars wrecking on the track is tough read.

I was just commenting that Dodge focused on street performance with the Hellcat, and racing another car through twisties on the street is not really a popular option. I doubt any of us have ever seen this done. But straightline pulls whether dig or rolls are common. So did Dodge miss the mark?[/QU

I wouldn't say that they missed they already had a following on the retro look. They followed along with the the hp bump's that all manufacturers were doing so nothing was new there other than being the new kid. You threw those numbers out 0-60, 1/8th, 1/4 and so on. I believe your assuming that it's with a good driver. Fact is there's a lot of them get beat on the street making the argument that hp isn't everything.

[Speedy1975]

I think we'll all agree that 90% of folks that buy performance cars have no idea how to drive them aggressively without being down right dangerous to themselves and others LOL