[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Also known as the plump *****.

I recall an early HC review that referred to it as a "Meatship".

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by 1295/SS

The Challenger or HC shouldn't be compared to a camaro or mustang? The ZL1 is going to change that argument soon enough.

How? ZL1 is still a Camaro. They're different classes of car altogether.

[1295/SS]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

How? ZL1 is still a Camaro. They're different classes of car altogether.

And the HC is still a challenger. How are they in a different class?

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by 1295/SS

And the HC is still a challenger. How are they in a different class?

+1
Same class since they are direct competitors, they just do things a little differently.

[396ssrat]

2018 HC gets a new body and 850hp.

[TommyV]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

2018 HC gets a new body and 850hp.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

The info I've seen says 2020 for any re-design of the Challenger. Just incremental updates. Surprised me to be honest, but I personally love the body style. I don't think it should even be compared to a Mustang or Camaro, but I guess since the Challenger Hellcat is the most powerful muscle car ever built everyone is gunning for it. It's a completely different class of car. The only thing it has in common with a Camaro or Mustang is it has two doors and is made by a US manufacturer (in Canada and Mexico LOL )

If Chevy developed a 800HP Silverado would we compare it to a Mustang or Challenger?

While it may not have much in common with the Camaro and Mustang what it does have is the fastest: 0-60, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, and full mile, the fastest top speed, the fastest stop light to stop light, the fastest roll race, driver comfort, bad assed and pure sex appeal. Everything that should be important in a Street Car.

[1295/SS]

Originally Posted by newmoon

While it may not have much in common with the Camaro and Mustang what it does have is the fastest: 0-60, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, and full mile, the fastest top speed, the fastest stop light to stop light, the fastest roll race, driver comfort, bad assed and pure sex appeal. Everything that should be important in a Street Car.

If you can find some traction, then MAYBE. I noticed you didn't mention any curves in the road.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by 1295/SS

And the HC is still a challenger. How are they in a different class?

Explain to me how they should be in the same class? I'm not being a smart ass, I'm legitimately asking. They have two things in common that I can see.

1. Made buy a US auto maker. (notice I did not say made in the US )
2. They have two doors, i.e. coupe models.

Other than that the Challenger has zero in common with either the Mustang or the Camaro. The Challenger is a MUSCLE CAR not a SPORT CAR like the Mustang and Camaro. Two different classes of car.

You can't even say they're really priced similarly since the Camaro and Challenger are so much more expensive than the Mustang.

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

+1
Same class since they are direct competitors, they just do things a little differently.

See above. I'm curious why anyone thinks they are even remote competitors. Maybe because the magazines lump them together and folks are just used to that?

Originally Posted by newmoon

While it may not have much in common with the Camaro and Mustang what it does have is the fastest: 0-60, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, and full mile, the fastest top speed, the fastest stop light to stop light, the fastest roll race, driver comfort, bad assed and pure sex appeal. Everything that should be important in a Street Car.

Agreed! I honestly hope they keep the Challenger as a larger muscle car rather than try to shrink it down to be something it's not. If anything they could make a Barracuda (or whatever since that's a Plymouth badge and shouldn't be used IMO ) a smaller sport car class vehicle to compete directly with the Mustang and Camaro, but for God's sake leave the Challenger alone.

Originally Posted by 1295/SS

I noticed you didn't mention any curves in the road.

You just made my point. It's a MUSCLE CAR, it will never be a sport car designed for carving corners. It's main purpose is to just put power down in a straight line so why even compare them?

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Explain to me how they should be in the same class? I'm not being a smart ass, I'm legitimately asking. They have two things in common that I can see.

1. Made buy a US auto maker. (notice I did not say made in the US )
2. They have two doors, i.e. coupe models.

Other than that the Challenger has zero in common with either the Mustang or the Camaro. The Challenger is a MUSCLE CAR not a SPORT CAR like the Mustang and Camaro. Two different classes of car.

You can't even say they're really priced similarly since the Camaro and Challenger are so much more expensive than the Mustang.




See above. I'm curious why anyone thinks they are even remote competitors. Maybe because the magazines lump them together and folks are just used to that?



Agreed! I honestly hope they keep the Challenger as a larger muscle car rather than try to shrink it down to be something it's not. If anything they could make a Barracuda (or whatever since that's a Plymouth badge and shouldn't be used IMO ) a smaller sport car class vehicle to compete directly with the Mustang and Camaro, but for God's sake leave the Challenger alone.



You just made my point. It's a MUSCLE CAR, it will never be a sport car designed for carving corners. It's main purpose is to just put power down in a straight line so why even compare them?

Simple. They are all sports coupes / pony cars that commonly get cross shopped by buyers = competitors.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

Simple. They are all sports coupes / pony cars that commonly get cross shopped by buyers = competitors.

The Challenger is not "sport" or "pony" anything. It's a big ass car. I think that's where everyone gets confused. I do agree on the point that they may be cross shopped. I did when I was looking for something fun to drive, but even I don't know why that is. My suspicion is that it's drilled in to us from the 1970s that these are direct competitors. Maybe back then they were more so, but definitely not today. I see them clearly as different tools for different jobs, like a hammer and a screw driver.

I replaced my 370Z with the Camaro because I felt they were more in the same class, but I don't see many compare the 370Z to the Mustang GT or Camaro SS, nor a GTR to the ZL1.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

The Challenger is not a "sport" anything. I think that's where everyone gets confused.

It doesn't drive badly, maybe you're the confused one. I know it's not a nimble car, but If I had to pick between placing it as being a regular coupe (such as a corolla) and a sports coupe, it would fall under sports coupe for me.

[KyleL]

I think they get cross shopped bc they are all U.S manufacturers, v8, RWD, 4 seater (technically), 2 door coupes that are similarly priced.....at least that's what I gather but I certainly see why they shouldn't really be compared directly

[GoneBoy]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

The Challenger is not "sport" or "pony" anything. It's a big ass car. I think that's where everyone gets confused. I do agree on the point that they may be cross shopped. I did when I was looking for something fun to drive, but even I don't know why that is. My suspicion is that it's drilled in to us from the 1970s that these are direct competitors. Maybe back then they were more so, but definitely not today. I see them clearly as different tools for different jobs, like a hammer and a screw driver.

I replaced my 370Z with the Camaro because I felt they were more in the same class, but I don't see many compare the 370Z to the Mustang GT or Camaro SS, nor a GTR to the ZL1.

I had actually narrowed my choice 10 years ago down to the Mustang gt and the 350z. Imo I think the only reason people cross shop 'pony' cars is because they inherently give the a lot of performance per buck... not because they're classified as 'pony' cars.

You can spend almost 30k on a loaded mazda 3, or you can cough up an extra 6k and buy a decently equipped gt. The value in pony cars definitely speak for themselves.