[Speedy1975]

You make some excellent points. Axles were the one of the first things we upgraded in the Challenger as they have about a 100% failure rate at the drag strip, maybe the Camaro ones are stronger or the lighter weight helps. Drive shaft was next as we'd twist those up and take out the rear diff with it lots of times.

I've heard some sound bites and the LTs do sound nice. Just seems like a lot to spend for 20rwhp. We get about the same gain on the Challenger so I never fooled with them. The fact you can't really see them added to that decision for me as well. Does the Camaro still pass emissions with LTs? The Challenger can sometimes pose issues there as well if you don't have a good tuner that knows what sensors to manipulate and how.

Good to know on the codes. New cars are nice but can be a pita to modify.

[LesBaer]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

You make some excellent points. Axles were the one of the first things we upgraded in the Challenger as they have about a 100% failure rate at the drag strip, maybe the Camaro ones are stronger or the lighter weight helps. Drive shaft was next as we'd twist those up and take out the rear diff with it lots of times.

I've heard some sound bites and the LTs do sound nice. Just seems like a lot to spend for 20rwhp. We get about the same gain on the Challenger so I never fooled with them. The fact you can't really see them added to that decision for me as well. Does the Camaro still pass emissions with LTs? The Challenger can sometimes pose issues there as well if you don't have a good tuner that knows what sensors to manipulate and how.

Good to know on the codes. New cars are nice but can be a pita to modify.

Oh I hear you, they're not cheap but you're limited without them. I've heard of people blowing engines because of the stock cats in a car that they tuned up the boost on. Actually ran into a guy this week with CTSV that it happened to after 30k miles.

You won't pass emissions if you just roll in there, but it's easy to get by with a tune change. Not triggering the codes is what you need to watch out for. That's why they last for so many drive cycles so people can't easily fake emissions. I've also never heard of anyone failing inspections because someone visually saw headers. However, at least in my state, with a new car I don't have to go to emissions for something like 7 years LOL! I still haven't had to get my emissions checked on my 2012 Charger.

The axles aren't great in the Camaros though. I'm definitely not saying they're good, but for someone who just drives fast on the highway they're fine. I just don't drag race or go bananas doing donuts. It's something I'd personally do after the fuel system upgrades...round 2 stuff if I add more boost. If you get any wheel hop with the stock axles, they're toast.

[Speedy1975]

Interesting on the cats. I have had everyone and their brother tell me the cats on my Challenger would collapse with all the boost I'm pushing, but here they are 6 years later and no issues (knock on wood). I was so sure I'd have problems I have a spare set of catted stock pipes on my attic LOL. Lots of guys have had them collapse though, and I wonder if it's tune related. For a LONG time folks thought a rich tune was a "safe" tune and I think that may have exacerbated the problem. I've always kept my car tuned right at 11.5 - 11.8 (11.9 in the winter) rather than in the 10s like some folks.

Your lucky you don't have to fool with emissions for 7 years. Sounds like your state legislature has some common sense. I've written our governor and senators about why I have to take my brand new car through emissions when it has a 7 year (? I think) emission warranty. Ridiculous.

Wheel hop = no bueno for sure. I've actually broken a 1400HP axle in the Challenger. It was replaced by DSS no questions asked and I was told some bad metal was used in the CV cage. It shattered in about 8 places. Good times!

I'm gonna have to go check out this Magnuson blower for the Camaro. I'm guessing I'll have to go check Vette forums to find out how the auto trans holds up to the extra power?

[LesBaer]

Lol well that might be the only thing that they've demonstrated common sense on!

The old vette and camaro transmissions should be good up to 1000hp, at least the 6 speeds. Don't go by what GM rates them at on the website as they go well beyond that. I don't know about the A8 though with an certainty. Lots of guys have gotten up around the same power level and haven't had a problem, but there are always exceptions. I'd be more wary if it's an early built car.

Good lucky with it . If you want to save a few bucks try the eForce. It should be identical in how it creates power and the other guys seem to like it. The Magnuson is probably over engineered, but you get what you pay for.

[Atomic Ed]

Thanks for your feedback Speedy!

I will chime in here and say that during my dyno run, the tuner took a peek at the Edelbrock tune that came with the E-Force and stated that while he could do a little better, it wouldn't be worth it. (maybe another 5hp?) This is a tune shop that does lots of Corvettes; three there in the shop while the dyno run was being done.

He suggested that I come back after adding long tubes, CAI and reduced pulley for a tune. He estimated that should add another 50-75rwhp total. I specifically asked about fuel and his thoughts were that for this mild upgrade to the E-Force setup, there should be enough fuel flow to cover it. He said he has done enough S/C LT1 engines to be comfortable with this upgrade. However, a fuel system upgrade could be needed since he's never worked with a '16 Camaro. I'm the kind of guy that wants a little headroom on fuel flow and don't like to see a system at 90% flow at WOT. Battery degradation, worn out pump, increased electrical resistance all can cause an issue later. I try to leave my builds with about a 20% excess capacity.

I'm still debating long tubes or not; you two both make valid points. In the past, a V8 always meant headers to me. But today's exhaust are so efficient, it's hard to justify the cost for the return in investment. I'm not into the bravado of the sound, so for a 30-35rwhp improvement, I'm not sure I like that return on investment. One thing that long tubes will do for you is the reduced back pressure. I suspect the installation of long tubes will result in a reduction of boost psi, which is a good thing.

On the other hand almost every Procharger install the local tuner does, they recommend a custom tune. They had a procharger install on a Corvette ready to go and they started it up for me. My first thought was somebody needs to tighten the belt! Too loud for me.

As for the warranty comment by LesBaer, I tend to agree with him overall. But to me the warranty was somewhat important in that as far as I know, I'm the first Gen6 with the E-Force kit on the road. Not having available any user feedback, I like having something to fall back on if Edelbrock had a major flaw in this new setup. I'll give a few thousand miles, but at this time, it's running like a Swiss watch. Otherwise, any further modding will be done with confidence in the base setup and no concern for the warranty.

[Speedy1975]

Any dyno numbers or pics of your Edelbrock setup? Friends of mine have one on their 426ci Challenger and love it.

[LesBaer]

Originally Posted by Atomic Ed

Thanks for your feedback Speedy!

I will chime in here and say that during my dyno run, the tuner took a peek at the Edelbrock tune that came with the E-Force and stated that while he could do a little better, it wouldn't be worth it. (maybe another 5hp?) This is a tune shop that does lots of Corvettes; three there in the shop while the dyno run was being done.

He suggested that I come back after adding long tubes, CAI and reduced pulley for a tune. He estimated that should add another 50-75rwhp total. I specifically asked about fuel and his thoughts were that for this mild upgrade to the E-Force setup, there should be enough fuel flow to cover it. He said he has done enough S/C LT1 engines to be comfortable with this upgrade. However, a fuel system upgrade could be needed since he's never worked with a '16 Camaro. I'm the kind of guy that wants a little headroom on fuel flow and don't like to see a system at 90% flow at WOT. Battery degradation, worn out pump, increased electrical resistance all can cause an issue later. I try to leave my builds with about a 20% excess capacity.

I'm still debating long tubes or not; you two both make valid points. In the past, a V8 always meant headers to me. But today's exhaust are so efficient, it's hard to justify the cost for the return in investment. I'm not into the bravado of the sound, so for a 30-35rwhp improvement, I'm not sure I like that return on investment. One thing that long tubes will do for you is the reduced back pressure. I suspect the installation of long tubes will result in a reduction of boost psi, which is a good thing.

On the other hand almost every Procharger install the local tuner does, they recommend a custom tune. They had a procharger install on a Corvette ready to go and they started it up for me. My first thought was somebody needs to tighten the belt! Too loud for me.

As for the warranty comment by LesBaer, I tend to agree with him overall. But to me the warranty was somewhat important in that as far as I know, I'm the first Gen6 with the E-Force kit on the road. Not having available any user feedback, I like having something to fall back on if Edelbrock had a major flaw in this new setup. I'll give a few thousand miles, but at this time, it's running like a Swiss watch. Otherwise, any further modding will be done with confidence in the base setup and no concern for the warranty.

That's really good to hear Ed. I think you'll be fine as long as you have a nice O2 line. I think I was the first guy with Heartbeat and wanted that fuel buffer as well as a precaution. Same for the headers (other benefits were more of a bonus). Everyone's goals and desires will differ slightly.

The more I learn about the car, the more I'm starting to feel like adding a SC is the only mod really worth it with this engine. I did order a new drop in K&N today to help it breathe better and allow me to clean & re-use vs. buying paper filters over and over again, but this may be it for me. Wheels will be here soon and I've got tires already. There's a G35 cam out there, but the car is plenty fast as is without over doing it. There's just no way in hell I was going to go with a Pro Charger though.

[vince3]

Originally Posted by E-Ray

My E-Force also is running at stock temperatures. I purchased the E-Force for $6600.00 (pre-order cost), installed for $900.00, plus I get a $300.00 rebate from Edelbrock. $7200.00 total. And get the Power Train Warranty as well.

Is $900 the normal cost for install? Did that include a tune?

[Speedy1975]

$900 is a fair install price and would not include a tune. Those are usually $500 - $1000 depending on time involved in my experience.

I agree 100% with Les that a supercharger is going to be about the only mod worth doing that you'll really get an improvement from. I also don't care for ProCharger superchargers.

[Atomic Ed]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Any dyno numbers or pics of your Edelbrock setup? Friends of mine have one on their 426ci Challenger and love it.

Yes, go down about 5-6 posts in this forced induction section to the "Edelbrock E-Force Anyone?" post I put up. Lots of pics and a dyno run as well. Like you said, the torque curve is table top flat. AFR curve looks nice as well. Gotta love 450 ft.-lbs. at 2500 rpm.

Again, all stock except for the E-Force and Edelbrock canned tune that comes with the kit.

[Ian SS]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

$900 is a fair install price and would not include a tune. Those are usually $500 - $1000 depending on time involved in my experience.

I agree 100% with Les that a supercharger is going to be about the only mod worth doing that you'll really get an improvement from. I also don't care for ProCharger superchargers.

Nitrous

I would say my e85 and intake manifold was well worth doing for a total cost of 1300 bucks for a 50whp gain...

[Atomic Ed]

Originally Posted by LesBaer

That's really good to hear Ed. I think you'll be fine as long as you have a nice O2 line. I think I was the first guy with Heartbeat and wanted that fuel buffer as well as a precaution. Same for the headers (other benefits were more of a bonus). Everyone's goals and desires will differ slightly.

The more I learn about the car, the more I'm starting to feel like adding a SC is the only mod really worth it with this engine. I did order a new drop in K&N today to help it breathe better and allow me to clean & re-use vs. buying paper filters over and over again, but this may be it for me. Wheels will be here soon and I've got tires already. There's a G35 cam out there, but the car is plenty fast as is without over doing it. There's just no way in hell I was going to go with a Pro Charger though.

Roger that. It is the best bang for the buck. When I just step back and think about it, throwing another $3-$4k at the car for another 50-75 rwhp doesn't make sense. (As if a SC does make any common sense. LOL.) I too am beginning to see this is a great place to stop, check my ego, and just enjoy. OK, other than better/bigger tires, which are definitely needed

I consider my E-Force a perfect "driving experience enhancer".

Oh, BTW, go check my AFR curve in my E-Force post. The local tuner thought it was spot on for a FI LT1 due to direct injection.

[Atomic Ed]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

$900 is a fair install price and would not include a tune. Those are usually $500 - $1000 depending on time involved in my experience.

I agree 100% with Les that a supercharger is going to be about the only mod worth doing that you'll really get an improvement from. I also don't care for ProCharger superchargers.

Tune is included in the kit Speedy.

[irmb]

I appreciate everyone's input and discussion.

I talked to Callaway today and actually feel like it's the most conservative way to go IE - most likely fewer long term problems.

They really focus on managing heat (3 intercoolers) and long term durability.

That's my take away from the conversation.

I've yet to call Maggi or Edelbrock directly yet - but I will.