[TSloper]

Here is the ECM table that you would have to modify.

[laborsmith]

I believe rpm I limited while in neutral or in first by the ecm.

Laborsmith

[Blazin383]

Interesting thoughts and solutions, but I really hate to start messing with the factory setup. All I know is its an odd sensation to stab the throttle and feel nothing happen for the first inch or so of travel. Funny that I haven't noticed it in just casual driving situations, but when the rpms are up and I want quick throttle response, I get that dead spot that just seems really odd.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

There are a couple things going on here that are maybe confusing things.

1. the "dead zone" i think the op is referring to occurs when you gradually just touch the throttle as if you were say coasting and wanted to give it what you would assume would be enough throttle to raise the rpms but in certain situations doesn't seem to. This "dead zone" at the beginning of throttle travel is not going to be fixed by the vitesse unless they have offset the resting state of the peddle position sensor and it's very possible they are doing that and it would make sense then why they're completely illegal to use on public roads because a slight error in tolerance between their product and your OEM sensor could make the resting state of the peddle sensor > 0% and start moving your car forward greater than expected or keep the car from being stopped by the emergency break at rest. That last part would fail you in safety inspections.


2. there is a perceived "dead zone" that some people have with the peddle in that a little movement doesn't equate to much of a change at all in throttle response. The vitesse controller reduces this to varying degrees based on the setting so that a little movement creates greater and greater changes in the effective peddle position sensor output. This also though, gives you the perception that it fixed the #1 issue but only because it's reduced the range that #1 is in effect to such a short distance that you can't physically move the peddle little enough to recreate it. The part i have a problem with this solution though is that it reduces the resolution of the peddle position sensor for the rest of the travel as well. Making it more difficult to keep a steady speed. This reduces gas mileage and can make driving at the highest speed without catching the attention of police a bit more hairy.

Not saying that S1 etc wouldn't be perfectly driveable and you couldn't maintain your speed after getting used to it. Just that it's not a solution, it just seems to be a mask (illegal one but whatever i guess). So far the only way I've heard about to fix the issue is tuning it out, but then that risks your warranty i guess.

Have you seen Sledge's videos of the Vitesse? No one who uses it has complained of "dead spots" in the pedal afterwards. Also I don't think anyone has actually described a "dead spot" in the pedal, just lag in the engine responding to your foot. To me, that rule outs the physical dead spot. Plus when you think about the engineers tuning, they wouldn't add a physical dead spot to help the car launch the best, they would tune the throttle response to ramp up slower.

Also I didn't see the Vitesse unit having a disclaimer about not for public road use. Maybe it's in fine print somewhere but it definitely would not change anything related to safety (unintended acceleration).

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Have you seen Sledge's videos of the Vitesse? No one who uses it has complained of "dead spots" in the pedal afterwards. Also I don't think anyone has actually described a "dead spot" in the pedal, just lag in the engine responding to your foot. To me, that rule outs the physical dead spot. Plus when you think about the engineers tuning, they wouldn't add a physical dead spot to help the car launch the best, they would tune the throttle response to ramp up slower.

Also I didn't see the Vitesse unit having a disclaimer about not for public road use. Maybe it's in fine print somewhere but it definitely would not change anything related to safety (unintended acceleration).

The disclaimer is on every one of their throttle product pages. Not in fine print but in the plain view. I've attached a screenshot.

The dead spot is not physical, it's tuned in. It's been described as a "dead spot" by numerous people at the initial pedal travel from idle and as well as a lack of response during spirited driving. The OP is referring to the former, rather than the later but the later is what vitesse addresses by reducing the amount of travel needed in the peddle. It masks the former issue at the expense of affecting the rest of the travel as well. In addition to using a device that isn't legal etc etc.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

The disclaimer is on every one of their throttle product pages. Not in fine print but in the plain view. I've attached a screenshot.

The dead spot is not physical, it's tuned in. It's been described as a "dead spot" by numerous people at the initial pedal travel from idle and as well as a lack of response during spirited driving. The OP is referring to the former, rather than the later but the later is what vitesse addresses by reducing the amount of travel needed in the peddle. It masks the former issue at the expense of affecting the rest of the travel as well. In addition to using a device that isn't legal etc etc.

I read the disclaimer and would have expected it to be there. They made it so obvious I overlooked it lol.

So if Vitesse can mask the one, why would it do the same for the other? I mean technically it's just modifying the signal artificially. Again I've not seen any complaints other than it being too sensitive on higher settings with the Vitesse unit, but it has plenty of adjustability. But all this talk about an "initial" dead spot makes me wonder how people ever got along with mechanical throttle linkages. Binding, stiff throttle blades, secondaries not opening. A tiny bit of extra pedal travel has never bothered me after you learn a new car.

As for legality, well 90% of aftermarket parts exist in that world. So it's not really a plus or minus. Probably just Vitesse CYA policy.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

I read the disclaimer and would have expected it to be there. They made it so obvious I overlooked it lol.

So if Vitesse can mask the one, why would it do the same for the other? I mean technically it's just modifying the signal artificially. Again I've not seen any complaints other than it being too sensitive on higher settings with the Vitesse unit, but it has plenty of adjustability. But all this talk about an "initial" dead spot makes me wonder how people ever got along with mechanical throttle linkages. Binding, stiff throttle blades, secondaries not opening. A tiny bit of extra pedal travel has never bothered me after you learn a new car.

As for legality, well 90% of aftermarket parts exist in that world. So it's not really a plus or minus. Probably just Vitesse CYA policy.

I think the difference is that people who bring up this "dead zone" on initial peddle travel are coming from mostly older cars that had mechanical linkages where all of your pedal transitions correlated directly to some amount of throttle movement. Having a pre-programmed amount of nothing - be it for safety or whatever is just new. Adapting to it is probably a perfectly reasonable thing to require - but lots of people dont like change and maybe it's something that doesn't really need to be there as well.

By masking what i'm referring to is that Vitesse changes the peddle position curve so that smaller travel is required for a given sensed (by ecu) peddle position. If the ECU expects some kind of special behavior on 0-5% peddle travel to not immediately equate to a change in throttle position then Vitesse masks this behavior rather than correcting it by making your 0-5% peddle travel now only be sensed by the ECU at 0-2.5% or so, which becomes increasingly impossible to physically reproduce. It isn't simply removing that behavior at 0-5% and leaving the rest of travel un-changed, it's affecting all of the travel.

btw, i'm using 0-5% as an example. I have no idea what the actual amount is, just that it exists in the stock setup.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

I think the difference is that people who bring up this "dead zone" on initial peddle travel are coming from mostly older cars that had mechanical linkages where all of your pedal transitions correlated directly to some amount of throttle movement. Having a pre-programmed amount of nothing - be it for safety or whatever is just new. Adapting to it is probably a perfectly reasonable thing to require - but lots of people dont like change and maybe it's something that doesn't really need to be there as well.

Unless that mechanical linkage is in perfect working order, they are actually a bigger PITA from my experience since they are prone to more issues(like I mentioned above). I was happy to have engines goto drive by wire throttles.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by TSloper

Here is the ECM table that you would have to modify.

So would what I have shaded below be basically all ineffective peddle positions for a column? Basically i shaded all rpms that were below the general idle rpm of roughly 550. I'm probably completely wrong because the negative rpms are kind of confusing ...really any field with an rpm too low to idle at seems weird to include a given number for. Why not just be 0?

[TSloper]

The cells aren't RPMs. They are requested axle torque figures in Nm. So if you are at 40 kph and go 100% throttle you will be requesting 6526 Nm of torque at the rear axle.

If you are cruising with the pedal solid at say 45% even if you up shift from 2->3->4 the requested torque is going to remain the same. Assuming no other limiters step in the ECM will try to deliver the requested axle torque.

It is confusing as it is not intuitive especially relative to older non torque based approaches.

The negative values allow for coast down. Since everything is based on telling the ECM what torque you desire you are actually telling it not to create any positive axle torque based on pedal input.

[G-10]

Originally Posted by laborsmith

I believe rpm I limited while in neutral or in first by the ecm.

Laborsmith

I"ve noticed the unresponsive throttle in neutral only. A couple of times when passing a new Mustang I've tried to rev the engine and nothing...works fine in drive. 2SS A8. Is it the ECM?

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by G-10

I"ve noticed the unresponsive throttle in neutral only. A couple of times when passing a new Mustang I've tried to rev the engine and nothing...works fine in drive. 2SS A8. Is it the ECM?

I notice it as well with my A8. If you are in either or park the throttle feels lazy compared to when it is in drive. Also, it is rev limited to 4000rpm while in park/neutral. It is all in the tune. The parameters, throttle maps, etc can all be different depending on the drive mode, etc. Tuning software is the only way to dial everything in just the way you like it.

[Drags1998]

This keep STUPID PEOPLE from Hurting ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!! (not that anyone here is, well You KNOW!!!)

[Snowblind]

http://www.hptuners.com/help/vcm_edi...vanced_e78.htm

This will give you a good insight on how your ECU works. A tune will not take out the dead spot in your pedal, the VTC works great and it eliminates (or reduces) the perceived issue of lag (I can also rev in neutral now btw). How many used controllers have you found on this forum for sale ?? That's right, none....that should speak for itself.

If you think you have a good rapport with your right foot then you should get one, if you get it and don't like it, sell it...plenty of people on here will buy it from you. Knowledge is power gents, the nay sayers just don't sound very informed. Sorry if I offended anyone....eh, maybe not.