[Thor142]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

I know, but think of those of us that are driving the gen6. I'm dreading the scenario when people pull on side of me and say:

"Nice car, sucks that your sales figures are low"

"Sweet ride, a shame they don't make commercials for your car"

"I was trying to compliment you on your car, but I was afraid to pull on side of you due to the visibility issues you have"

"I love your car. I can't own one cause I play golf."

I guess I can only hope that some people's opinions are based on facts rather than the BS posted on this thread.

We're here talking about sales figures because most of us (I think ) are either Camaro enthusiasts or owners or would be owners. It's a logical topic since some of us stayed out of the Gen 6 so far because of price and it's a logical step in some of our minds to think that price and low sales figures are connected somehow. I would be in a Gen 6 2SS right now if I hadn't found a 15 1SS 1LE brand new for $10k less. We're not bashing your car. I think the Gen 6 is gorgeous. I still want one. But I think the pricing is a little out of line, which is a valid opinion since it's why I'm not driving one. It ties in to low sales numbers. This is a good topic for discussion.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by Thor142

We're here talking about sales figures because most of us (I think ) are either Camaro enthusiasts or owners or would be owners. It's a logical topic since some of us stayed out of the Gen 6 so far because of price and it's a logical step in some of our minds to think that price and low sales figures are connected somehow. I would be in a Gen 6 2SS right now if I hadn't found a 15 1SS 1LE brand new for $10k less. We're not bashing your car. I think the Gen 6 is gorgeous. I still want one. But I think the pricing is a little out of line, which is a valid opinion since it's why I'm not driving one. It ties in to low sales numbers. This is a good topic for discussion.

All good points. I am almost shocked at how few Gen 6 I see driving around. Almost none. Although, in fairness I don't really see very many Gen 5 either, but more than Gen 6 by a wide margin. I don't know if Camaros are just not popular in New England or if it is only my area.

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by Thor142

We're here talking about sales figures because most of us (I think ) are either Camaro enthusiasts or owners or would be owners. It's a logical topic since some of us stayed out of the Gen 6 so far because of price and it's a logical step in some of our minds to think that price and low sales figures are connected somehow. I would be in a Gen 6 2SS right now if I hadn't found a 15 1SS 1LE brand new for $10k less. We're not bashing your car. I think the Gen 6 is gorgeous. I still want one. But I think the pricing is a little out of line, which is a valid opinion since it's why I'm not driving one. It ties in to low sales numbers. This is a good topic for discussion.

Understandable. I think when GM feels the car is not selling enough to generate their profit goal, they will offer incentives that will bring down the price. For now, they are making a larger profit on a smaller sales figure. This is just my opinion.

[Baywire]

Originally Posted by Posaune

That is not what it cost GM to manufacture those engines and install them at the factory and the prices you posted are off from retail crate engines.
LT1 - $8450
http://paceperformance.com/i-1998794...te-engine.html
LS3 - $5849.88
http://paceperformance.com/i-7141040...te-engine.html
LTG - $7199.88
http://paceperformance.com/i-2232610...te-engine.html

I never said that those are the prices for GM to manufacture those engines... I quoted GM's website selling those turnkey engines for those prices...

Just because you can buy an engine for less from a non GM retailer has nothing to do with what GM is charging you for it.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Thor142

We're here talking about sales figures because most of us (I think ) are either Camaro enthusiasts or owners or would be owners. It's a logical topic since some of us stayed out of the Gen 6 so far because of price and it's a logical step in some of our minds to think that price and low sales figures are connected somehow. I would be in a Gen 6 2SS right now if I hadn't found a 15 1SS 1LE brand new for $10k less. We're not bashing your car. I think the Gen 6 is gorgeous. I still want one. But I think the pricing is a little out of line, which is a valid opinion since it's why I'm not driving one. It ties in to low sales numbers. This is a good topic for discussion.

I'm not in a financial position to own any Camaro, but I would buy a 2016+ in a heartbeat if the price was right. Unfortunately the version I would want is about $7,000 over my safe comfort level in terms of price.

Which is why I am considering a used one down the line

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

I'm not in a financial position to own any Camaro, but I would buy a 2016+ in a heartbeat if the price was right. Unfortunately the version I would want is about $7,000 over my safe comfort level in terms of price.

Which is why I am considering a used one down the line

Whatever you do, do NOT go test drive an SS. If you do, you will find a way to make it work.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Emoto

Whatever you do, do NOT go test drive an SS. If you do, you will find a way to make it work.

Funny you say that, it is exactly what happened to me. "Just looking while I am getting an oil change, no possible way I could make it work with still a year left on my 5th Gen lease"....."Ok, i'll test drive it to see if I will even want it when my lease is up".....20 minutes later....."well, let's see what we can do with the numbers"

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by merlin803

Funny you say that, it is exactly what happened to me. "Just looking while I am getting an oil change, no possible way I could make it work with still a year left on my 5th Gen lease"....."Ok, i'll test drive it to see if I will even want it when my lease is up".....20 minutes later....."well, let's see what we can do with the numbers"

Yeah, it really is that nice of a car.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Thor142

I would be in a Gen 6 2SS right now if I hadn't found a 15 1SS 1LE brand new for $10k less. We're not bashing your car. I think the Gen 6 is gorgeous. I still want one. But I think the pricing is a little out of line, which is a valid opinion since it's why I'm not driving one. It ties in to low sales numbers. This is a good topic for discussion.

That's not really valid for this discussion of sales vs the competition. Now if you had went and bought a Mustang or Challenger due to price it would be. But what you did is by almost a 2 year old car(depending on when it was built) of the same model. So obviously any of the new features on the 6th gen weren't a selling point for you. Essentially it's the same as buying a used car, always going to get a better deal if that car has all the things you want. Not that isn't a valid reason for you, but we are after why the Camaro isn't selling as well as the competition. And you didn't pick the competition if that makes sense.

[Raven87]

I really do not understand why some 6th Gen owners think that discussion critiquing the low sales number is criticism of the car? Criticizing what GM is doing or not doing to get the sales numbers up is not a criticism of the car.

The only true 'critic' of the car are the sales numbers. Either the buying public loves a car and the numbers are high in its market segment or it doesn't and the numbers are lower. That is as honest as it gets in real feedback. The manufacturer can choose to be happy with those numbers or not but we do not truly know how GM feels at this point.

Some say that the lack of incentives may mean that GM is ok with the numbers. Others have said that perhaps GM's marketing group is either ignorant, oblivious, or powerless(?) to do something.

And it may just be that GM does NOT really care that much about the Camaro number as long as it is profitable.

To that end, there are multiple reasons that may explain the 'why' a car's sales number is higher or lower. It can be from the overall design, the pricing, the features, etc - the list is long. Usually, there are 1-2 key factors at play but often more. It is a very lengthy list and often how a car (especially a performance car) makes you 'feel' is as important as any one of them. Does the car make you want it? Or is just 'meh'? That is the intangible that matters more often than just about anything. The successful company is the one that creates desire for its product but the big question is how?

If a company says it is happy with selling less but making more per car than that says it has a somewhat finite profit number it wants the car to make and if makes more, then fine. I think that is a foolish way to think because what company - much less a very publicly traded company! - would not want to make every last dollar it can by selling every car it makes and not have to use incentives to do it? I do not think that is how GM is viewing the Camaro at all (make more per car but sell less and only satisfy the Camaro Enthusiasts and to Hell with any new buyers) but I could be wrong.

Incentives really only say one thing in the end - the car is priced too high given the amount of desire to buy it that was created when at the original price. Now, that doesn't mean the car is not worth what it was priced at given its equipment and performance but it just means the buying public thinks it is just 'X' too much so the buyers stay away. So, if by reducing the buyer's price they sell more, then that does go a long way to confirming it.

But the downside of incentives is that they are self defeating and affect resale value as well as apparent value for what you are buying. They are often seen as negatives and just as the fire sales GM had for the 5th Gen Z28 did not clear the lots completely, that says that a lower price is not the only barrier to increasing sales.

I love the new Camaro. I didn't at first but after I saw one on the ground, I was hooked. I had a 5th Gen ZL1 and absolutely loved it. The 6th gen IMO just improves overall what the 5th Gen needed improving.

The LT1 is a monster and in the Camaro it will do very well performance wise as we've already heard. Tie it to the A8 and it's a beast at the strip or the stoplight. Tie it to the M6 and it's a whole lot of fun and driver engagement. It is Win-Win with this car in the drive-train department.

I truly think the GM/Chey Sales Team has their head up their behinds if they are A) happy with the May Sales numbers and 2)idiots if they don't do something to increase them.

But it is also possible that GM does indeed have an inkling as to why the number is down and may also realize that just throwing incentives at the car in the dollar amount required is not cost-efficient to get the numbers cumulatively higher and be able to best the Mustang. Or, they realize that what it would take to increase sales (a new lower priced model or even another design/refresh) is impossible to do for a variety of reasons. Who knows?

I hope things change for June.

[HuJass]

Originally Posted by Emoto

I am almost shocked at how few Gen 6 I see driving around. Almost none. Although, in fairness I don't really see very many Gen 5 either, but more than Gen 6 by a wide margin. I don't know if Camaros are just not popular in New England or if it is only my area.

Same here in Central New York.
I've only seen one 6th gen on the road. One.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Emoto

Yeah, it really is that nice of a car.

I sat in one in a showroom a few months ago. I remember thinking it was new enough to be interesting but familiar enough to know I was in a Camaro. I liked it. I'll be test driving one as soon as my dealer gives me a call and says he has a 17 1LE on the lot.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

That's not really valid for this discussion of sales vs the competition. Now if you had went and bought a Mustang or Challenger due to price it would be. But what you did is by almost a 2 year old car(depending on when it was built) of the same model. So obviously any of the new features on the 6th gen weren't a selling point for you. Essentially it's the same as buying a used car, always going to get a better deal if that car has all the things you want. Not that isn't a valid reason for you, but we are after why the Camaro isn't selling as well as the competition. And you didn't pick the competition if that makes sense.

Didn't he say it was the pricing (for him) that in his opinion was 'out of line' and nothing about the 6th gen features that kept him from buying?

You are correct about the comparison with the competition being the focal point of this great debate but if the pricing is keeping even the Camaro faithful from buying a 6th gen, that definitely is a factor that leads into lower sales, right?

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Raven87

I really do not understand why some 6th Gen owners think that discussion critiquing the low sales number is criticism of the car? Criticizing what GM is doing or not doing to get the sales numbers up is not a criticism of the car.

Incentives really only say one thing in the end - the car is priced too high given the amount of desire to buy it that was created when at the original price. Now, that doesn't mean the car is not worth what it was priced at given its equipment and performance but it just means the buying public thinks it is just 'X' too much so the buyers stay away. So, if by reducing the buyer's price they sell more, then that does go a long way to confirming it.

But the downside of incentives is that they are self defeating and affect resale value as well as apparent value for what you are buying. They are often seen as negatives and just as the fire sales GM had for the 5th Gen Z28 did not clear the lots completely, that says that a lower price is not the only barrier to increasing sales.

And why do some Gen5 owners say they hate the styling when it was clearly redesigned from the Gen5 looks? The world may never know. I put both groups in the same category....fanboy.

Originally Posted by Raven87

Didn't he say it was the pricing (for him) that in his opinion was 'out of line' and nothing about the 6th gen features that kept him from buying?

You are correct about the comparison with the competition being the focal point of this great debate but if the pricing is keeping even the Camaro faithful from buying a 6th gen, that definitely is a factor that leads into lower sales, right?

Yep I was trying to keep on topic since this thread has spiraled. I was in Thor's position too but I couldn't justify buying the Gen5 which feels way too long in the tooth now. That didn't happen until the refreshed Challenger, and new gen Mustang/Camaro came out. Amazing how in months a car can go from cool to outdated for some.

Honestly trying to convert many Gen5 owners at this point is foolish. Many are still deep in terms of payments on theirs or don't feel the need to buy a new car every 2-4 years. So really hope that wasn't GM's plan. Now once we get into 2017-2019 time frame, if there aren't more converts then clearly the Gen5 owners were not impressed.