[Number 3]

Hey Michael Bay showed the new Bumblebee. All is well as GM is apparently advertising the Camaro.

[SpookShow'84]

Too bad his looks worse than stock though, maybe it will help though.

[SpookShow'84]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I guess the only time you can refer to 435hp as being underpowered is when you are comparing it to 455hp and 455tq or maybe the new upcoming ZL1 at 640hp.

We are on the gen6 board aren't we?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by DeliveryMan

Totally agree. How the hell can anyone seriously say the 435hp GT is underpowered?!?

Don't focus on the power figure. It's the performance gap with the SS that is shocking. Chevy delivered a SS level on par with the previous ZL1. Completely outclasses the GT. A Camaro SS owner doesn't need to modify his/her car. It's that good right out of the box

If you like the ZL1 today, you’re going to love the SS tomorrow. Think about that from a philosophical standpoint.

Mark Reuss - Dec 2014

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Don't focus on the power figure. It's the performance gap with the SS that is shocking. Chevy delivered a SS level on par with the previous ZL1. Completely outclasses the GT. A Camaro SS owner doesn't need to modify his/her car. It's that good right out of the box

Shocking to whom? To Ford, the enthusiasts that purchased them, the non-enthusiasts that purchased them, reviewers/critics, those who purchased the competition, those who never had any intention of purchasing one?

Once we've pin pointed who is the shocked party, we should follow up with how much their state of awe is to be gauged against the others points of view.

The thing about looking at something through a lens is, it may seem clearer but maybe your just focused on a piece of the puzzle and not the whole thing.

Through the enthusiast's lens we see the gap in performance and it is indeed pronounced. To us who value such things perhaps this means something, but to everyone else, how much is this even a factor?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Shocking to whom? To Ford, the enthusiasts that purchased them, the non-enthusiasts that purchased them, reviewers/critics, those who purchased the competition, those who never had any intention of purchasing one?

Once we've pin pointed who is the shocked party, we should follow up with how much their state of awe is to be gauged against the others points of view.

The thing about looking at something through a lens is, it may seem clearer but maybe your just focused on a piece of the puzzle and not the whole thing.

Through the enthusiast's lens we see the gap in performance and it is indeed pronounced. To us who value such things perhaps this means something, but to everyone else, how much is this even a factor?

I was responding to comments regarding how the GT, with 435 HP, could be considered underpowered. My point was that focusing on the power figure alone masks the performance gulf between the two cars.

Shocking as in who expected the SS to be 0.5 sec faster in the quarter, 0.6 sec faster from 0 to 60 mph, stop from 60 mph in five less feet, pull 0.04 g more in lateral acceleration and best the figure 8 by 0.3 secs. Performance at a level where Motor Trend skipped matching them on a track in the H2H and instead later ran the SS against the M4 and found it superior.

In terms of which is more impressive, which one I’d use to shock my friends or go supercar hunting on a lark, it’s the Camaro.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-...rd-mustang-gt/

I wasn't expecting this gap two years ago and I suppose future 1LE match ups will also give some previously unexpected results.

There are 30+ earlier pages discussing the other measurable shocking comparison between the two cars. Thank you.

[raptor5244]

As long as they factored double the profit margin per vehicle then they can be happy selling half the amount of cars.

9500 Camaros sold x $1000 profit each = $9.5m

5800 Camaros sold x $2000 profit each = $11.6m

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

As long as they factored double the profit margin per vehicle then they can be happy selling half the amount of cars.

9500 Camaros sold x $1000 profit each = $9.5m

5800 Camaros sold x $2000 profit each = $11.6m

Exactly. GM has stated that they moved to a plan to make higher profits for each car sold, along with reducing the low profit sales of fleet cars.

Only GM knows what sales number they were targeting and if they are happy or at least content with them.

We may really never know but nothing that they have said, at least publicly, has indicated that they are disappointed.

But, regardless, there are always going to be people that are butt hurt because there are more Mustangs sold.

[hangover]

Which I find beyond stupid. You don't buy these cars for back seat space and headroom. You don't see Ferraris and Porsches getting panned over the same "issues"...

Sorry but people that buy 100-200k Ferraris, Porsches, GT350R's aren't in the same ballpark as regular Mustang and Camaro buyers. Give me a break.

The Camaro is a 2 seater. The Mustang 4 seater. Whether you admit it or not, that right there kills a % of sales for the Camaro. Ask anyone with 10 year olds to go sit indian-style in a Camaro. Come on man.

And I really like the Camaro 6 - really aggressive looking, smaller (both good and bad), and fast as heck. But I need something semi-practical. If I didn't, I'd jump into a Camaro in a heartbeat.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by hangover

Sorry but people that buy 100-200k Ferraris, Porsches, GT350R's aren't in the same ballpark as regular Mustang and Camaro buyers. Give me a break.

The Camaro is a 2 seater. The Mustang 4 seater. Whether you admit it or not, that right there kills a % of sales for the Camaro. Ask anyone with 10 year olds to go sit indian-style in a Camaro. Come on man.

And I really like the Camaro 6 - really aggressive looking, smaller (both good and bad), and fast as heck. But I need something semi-practical. If I didn't, I'd jump into a Camaro in a heartbeat.

My buddy has a 2015 Mustang.Technically, both are four sweaters.. Realistically, neither the Camaro of Mustang is. There isn't much practical about Camaro or Mustang.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by hangover

The Camaro is a 2 seater. The Mustang 4 seater.

...Ok.

[merlin803]

I think that anyone that tried to ride in the back seat of my 5th Gen, including my kids, would say that it was pretty much only comfortable for very short rides or emergencies so I don't think that the smaller back seat in the 6th Gen should be much more of a deciding factor on whether to buy as it was with the 5th Gen.

Neither is practical as a frequently used 4 seater, especially for adults in the backseat.

[hangover]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

My buddy has a 2015 Mustang.Technically, both are four sweaters.. Realistically, neither the Camaro of Mustang is. There isn't much practical about Camaro or Mustang.

Wrong. The Mustang has plenty of legroom for kids. The Camaro has none. Deal-breaker for anyone who wants a sporty car and a family.

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by hangover

Wrong. The Mustang has plenty of legroom for kids. The Camaro has none. Deal-breaker for anyone who wants a sporty car and a family.

I owned one, it doesn't. Troll on!