[Obsessed 17]

Originally Posted by Snowblind

Do you have any idea what your AIT's are ? I see your filter is just above the manifold and was curious what sort of drop your intercooler was giving you.

Id like to know the AIT's (air intake temp) are as well. I just dont get why procharger put the intake next to the manifold. It completely under cuts one of the best aspects of centri kits (low charge temps). That wasnt done on the c7 kit. Maybe the aftermarket can come up with a fix, or maybe we need to wait for the paxton/vortex kits for better intake location.

[Atomic Ed]

Originally Posted by Obsessed 17

Id like to know the AIT's (air intake temp) are as well. I just dont get why procharger put the intake next to the manifold. It completely under cuts one of the best aspects of centri kits (low charge temps). That wasnt done on the c7 kit. Maybe the aftermarket can come up with a fix, or maybe we need to wait for the paxton/vortex kits for better intake location.

I don't see the air intake location as a big deal. Given the exit charge temp from the Procharger, the small difference in AIT's with the inlet where it's at verses the stock position will be minimal compared to the outlet, compressed air temp. There is also the simplicity of the design/cost management.

We Audi TT owners hashed this about when you moved up to a big turbo. Final conclusion was it didn't make much, if any, difference where the intake inlet was located. The right sizing of the intercooler was the real key. It's the final charge temp/density into the manifold that's important. On a stock Audi TT, yes, cooler inlet air was helpful, but that was due to the intercoolers being woefully inadequate.

[toohighpsi]

Originally Posted by Atomic Ed

I don't see the air intake location as a big deal. Given the exit charge temp from the Procharger, the small difference in AIT's with the inlet where it's at verses the stock position will be minimal compared to the outlet, compressed air temp. There is also the simplicity of the design/cost management.

Any boosting device will always provide a given delta temp at a specific pressure ratio, 20 degrees hotter in will equal 20 degrees hotter out. On my D-1R procharged mustang moving the air filter from underhood to inside the front bumper yielded .4 sec ET (9 sec car).

[Atomic Ed]

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

Any boosting device will always provide a given delta temp at a specific pressure ratio, 20 degrees hotter in will equal 20 degrees hotter out. On my D-1R procharged mustang moving the air filter from underhood to inside the front bumper yielded .4 sec ET (9 sec car).

Can't argue with that, but this Procharger kit isn't operating on the edge like your Mustang is. My best guess is that going with the bigger intercooler will give the average user an adequate delta temp to the intake manifold.

On the other hand, I don't suppose your Procharger is glowing bright cherry red at the end of a hard run like my turbo does. The heat from the turbine side bleeds over considerably into the compressor side, making attempts to cool the inlet air pretty worthless. So this makes my turbo comparison not as direct as I first thought.

I just got my first SC on the 2016 Camaro and I'm looking forward to learning the differences.

[toohighpsi]

Originally Posted by Atomic Ed

Can't argue with that, but this Procharger kit isn't operating on the edge like your Mustang is. My best guess is that going with the bigger intercooler will give the average user an adequate delta temp to the intake manifold.

On the other hand, I don't suppose your Procharger is glowing bright cherry red at the end of a hard run like my turbo does. The heat from the turbine side bleeds over considerably into the compressor side, making attempts to cool the inlet air pretty worthless. So this makes my turbo comparison not as direct as I first thought.

I just got my first SC on the 2016 Camaro and I'm looking forward to learning the differences.

There is less heat transfer from the hot side to the cold side of a turbo than one would think, the center section does a pretty good job of dealing with the heat - plus with the higher efficiency of the turbo compressor you'll end up with a lower outlet temp than the centrifugal.

Looking forward to hear your thoughts on the Camaro SC. I've run everything imaginable and the PD blower for a street/strip car is a really good solution.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Atomic Ed

I don't see the air intake location as a big deal. Given the exit charge temp from the Procharger, the small difference in AIT's with the inlet where it's at verses the stock position will be minimal compared to the outlet, compressed air temp. There is also the simplicity of the design/cost management.

We Audi TT owners hashed this about when you moved up to a big turbo. Final conclusion was it didn't make much, if any, difference where the intake inlet was located. The right sizing of the intercooler was the real key. It's the final charge temp/density into the manifold that's important. On a stock Audi TT, yes, cooler inlet air was helpful, but that was due to the intercoolers being woefully inadequate.

Same thing has been found on BMW, and all the Honda kits I've worked on over the last 2 to 3 decades. The gas law is based on kelvin (-273 F) and minute changes in pre compressor per intercooler is near meaningless. It is the efficiency of the intercooler and the procharger intercooler looks to be massive and in the correct placement. Nutshell A 10 degree increase in intake temp or 3% would need say a 1.5% increase in intercooler efficiency to be completely offset. I'm not saying to purposely design a hot air intake, but within reason it all works.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

There is less heat transfer from the hot side to the cold side of a turbo than one would think, the center section does a pretty good job of dealing with the heat - plus with the higher efficiency of the turbo compressor you'll end up with a lower outlet temp than the centrifugal.

Looking forward to hear your thoughts on the Camaro SC. I've run everything imaginable and the PD blower for a street/strip car is a really good solution.

True also, the shaft is what 8 mm and trough oil and sometimes water... very little heat transfer, more from the housing itself but clearly not crazy as the center section is at the very least oil cooled. Most turbo setups I've run, I take the time to plumb in water too, not really because of heat during operation but residual heat when the engine is turned off (less coking of the shaft).

[Atomic Ed]

So a question for you two. On a turbo setup you can "over size" the intercooler and contribute to lag due to the "fill" time of the intercooler. Does a centrifugal SC share that same attribute? I'm thinking not, but would like your opinions/experience.

If I were going with the Procharger, I would step up to the bigger intercooler, unless there is some negative aspects of doing so.

And yes, my new PD is a completely different driving experience from a turbo boosted setup. It's like a huge big block in the way it responds.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Atomic Ed

So a question for you two. On a turbo setup you can "over size" the intercooler and contribute to lag due to the "fill" time of the intercooler. Does a centrifugal SC share that same attribute? I'm thinking not, but would like your opinions/experience.

If I were going with the Procharger, I would step up to the bigger intercooler, unless there is some negative aspects of doing so.

And yes, my new PD is a completely different driving experience from a turbo boosted setup. It's like a huge big block in the way it responds.

The cars I turbo are from 1.6 to 2.4 liters and the total volume of the intercooler system dues give some lag say .25 seconds vs a much simpler system. These are manual cars. On a much larger engine and an auto I don't see any issues at all as the throttle is at least partially open in all forms of driving / racing.

On a supercharged system I have a Powerdyne billet wheel on my Challenger, there is considerable lag to begin with, which is not really a bad thing as can you really use that huge low torque spike provided by a roots / twisted / Lysholm type supercharger? I've also run a whipple (lysholm) on a LS6. What I do like about centri superchargers is that you can preserve the long runner intake or even upgrade to the MDS intake. This give a tremendous boost to mid / top power. That is one reason all these new fangled roots / twisted chargers are going for an inverse design with the charger in the valley and runners on top, so they perform more like a centri setup.

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tec...on-a-13-stang/

It is a merry go round, so right now there is no one that is better. I think the twisted roosts is probably more long lived based on the OEM applications; but more expensive. My centri needs to be rebuilt every 50K.. no big deal actually. I don't have any procharger experience.

[Atomic Ed]

Thanks Oldman for sharing your experience.

Op, do keep us up on your how your Procharger works out over the long run.

[Daves1SS]

So is a video going to be posted of the sound of this sexy thing?

[BlueCamaro6]

Im curious on the sound also as I'm looking at the options out there in superchargers.

[Sandkillman]

Has any one else installed a Procharger? Mine came with an SCT handheld. Put 623 to the wheel.

[Daves1SS]

Originally Posted by Sandkillman

Has any one else installed a Procharger? Mine came with an SCT handheld. Put 623 to the wheel.

What else do you have done? Sounds like a lot??? Didn't figure a bone stock car with their kit and their tuning would be any more than 550 whp.