[maraging]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

The circle jerk and denial in here, combined with the blind GM defensiveness makes me shake my head.
The blind spot issue is real, no matter how much fan boys want to deny it.
This is coming from a 2016 SS owner.

I did not experience the blind spot issues on my test drive. Only after I purchased my Camaro did the blind spot become an issue.

To explain even further, the blind spot on my 2016 Camaro becomes more worse as the angle increases between me and the traffic in other lanes. Like in traffic circles, and when I am pulling into, or merging with, traffic at an angle.

I AM going to install the "mirror bubbles" on my Camaro side mirrors to see if they help.

Can anyone recommend a product or vendor? Maybe a link?
Thanks.

But but just adjust your mirrors lol. On a serious note I think im a better driver in my camaro, I pay more attention to other cars and where they are.

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted by Number 3

what it would take for GM to truly dominate again and I mean 40% market share dominating. That takes products with broad appeal to a widermrange of buyers in today's market.

Puleeese. Do you understand what you're advocating here?

CAMRYS FOR EVERYONE!!!

The average ("wide range") buyer is a numbskull who could care less about vehicle dynamics or styling. They are the antithesis of "enthusiast". Look how all the auto and tech companies are rushing pell mell toward the "autonomous" driverless car! GM made the godawful, unexplainable decision to give $500 million to Lyft to further the driverless cause.

Beware. There is a huge movement both within and outside the auto industry to destroy what we know as performance automobiles whereby satisfaction is gained from pushing it close to its limits. The EPA has already virtually outlawed the V8! CAFE 2025 is only 9 years away. That means product planners are already making decisions about what will and what will not fit into this ridiculous and arbitrary destruction of high performance automobiles. In all likelihood, if the next administration does not reverse things, the SIX will be the final Camaro generation. As Al Oppenheiser (bless his soul) stated to a public gathering of Corvette and Camaro owners last May at IMS, YOU better think about this when you choose who to vote for in 2016.

Think about that for a minute!

Do not ever make the mistake of asking GM to design for a "wide range of buyers in today's market" because you're asking them to abandon everything we love about cars.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Number3.. Please show us an auto manufacturer that owns 40 percent of the market.. Would have been easier decades and decades ago.

[meb91]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

The circle jerk and denial in here, combined with the blind GM defensiveness makes me shake my head.
The blind spot issue is real, no matter how much fan boys want to deny it.
This is coming from a 2016 SS owner.

I did not experience the blind spot issues on my test drive. Only after I purchased my Camaro did the blind spot become an issue.

To explain even further, the blind spot on my 2016 Camaro becomes more worse as the angle increases between me and the traffic in other lanes. Like in traffic circles, and when I am pulling into, or merging with, traffic at an angle.

I AM going to install the "mirror bubbles" on my Camaro side mirrors to see if they help.

Can anyone recommend a product or vendor? Maybe a link?
Thanks.

It's not "circle jerk and denial," I and others here are just giving you our personal experiences/opinions. After driving mine for the last 1300 miles (through quite a few heavy traffic situations) so far I have not had any issues where cars were hidden. Point is, if the visibility were so dangerous as you're claiming, why haven't we all crashed our cars by now? As I've said, the feel of the smaller windows may not appeal to everyone, but to say it's a "design fail" and a "safety issue" is making a big deal out of nothing.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by 2016SS

Was actually just joking but rant on

Joking too. Just forgot to say joking.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Indydriver

Puleeese. Do you understand what you're advocating here?

CAMRYS FOR EVERYONE!!!

The average ("wide range") buyer is a numbskull who could care less about vehicle dynamics or styling. They are the antithesis of "enthusiast". Look how all the auto and tech companies are rushing pell mell toward the "autonomous" driverless car! GM made the godawful, unexplainable decision to give $500 million to Lyft to further the driverless cause.

Beware. There is a huge movement both within and outside the auto industry to destroy what we know as performance automobiles whereby satisfaction is gained from pushing it close to its limits. The EPA has already virtually outlawed the V8! CAFE 2025 is only 9 years away. That means product planners are already making decisions about what will and what will not fit into this ridiculous and arbitrary destruction of high performance automobiles. In all likelihood, if the next administration does not reverse things, the SIX will be the final Camaro generation. As Al Oppenheiser (bless his soul) stated to a public gathering of Corvette and Camaro owners last May at IMS, YOU better think about this when you choose who to vote for in 2016.

Think about that for a minute!

Do not ever make the mistake of asking GM to design for a "wide range of buyers in today's market" because you're asking them to abandon everything we love about cars.

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Number3.. Please show us an auto manufacturer that owns 40 percent of the market.. Would have been easier decades and decades ago.

Ha love you guys. Of course no one does. And of course I know what I am advocating and it's far from Camrys for everyone.

Most haven't followed my posts for the past many years. If you had any idea what I mean by 40% and world domination you would know I mean simply the greatest cars period. Not 40 brands selling focused cars with "character" but cars so good they are beyond compare.

And yes I realize it was a hope and dream but believe me it wasn't mine alone. I knew many that were ready willing and able to go there. But alas we watched market share drop from 42% to well under 20%. Many of us suffered through that. So yes, I do remember 40% plus. I was there!

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted by Number 3

So yes, I do remember 40% plus. I was there!

Well, times change. Look at all the auto manufacturers littering the road to bankruptcy. I grew up on Japanese superbikes then morphed into their cars and finally, bought a few Chryslers as I raised my family in their disruptive design called minivan. I bought my first GM car in 2014. I'm an empty-nest boomer who wanted (and could afford) a fun, powerful, good looking car. Kudos to GM for building politically incorrect hi-po cars like Camaro. I will derive untold hours of pleasure driving mine. If visibility is your only gripe with Camaro, you really should get the excellent convertible. Really. Try it. As my salesman told me, "it will change your life". He was right.

[motorhead]

This has been a very interesting threads. Thanks to all involved. Number3 definitely shows his expertise in this field and while I don't always agree with him. I value his input. I will most certainly be taking a gen6 on a very long test drive on every type of road before buying with all this talk of poor visibly. The gen5 is not the greatest in that department either admittedly.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by motorhead

This has been a very interesting threads. Thanks to all involved. Number3 definitely shows his expertise in this field and while I don't always agree with him. I value his input. I will most certainly be taking a gen6 on a very long test drive on every type of road before buying with all this talk of poor visibly. The gen5 is not the greatest in that department either admittedly.

Yeah, this thing really took off! Wow!

I am certainly not going to sit here and say that visibility in my 5th gen is perfect. In fact, when I first got it, I thought it was terrible.

Fast forward a year and a half and it's not so bad. I learned seat position, I have it placed where my line of vision is well above the door sill. This does leave a little challenge seeing a few stop lights at smaller intersections where the light is closer.

I find that the mirrors are adjustable so that I can see what's on my rear 1/4's, what's coming up behind me on either side and I cane see the front of the car in my side view and the rear of the other car in my rearview. So that is good.

The biggest thing is learning where the weak areas or "blind spots" are, and yes there are some, and being careful about those first. It has now become such a habit that I do it without thought. When backing up, it's a constant scan of all the rear views, and of course, actually turning my head and looking directly out of rear window, (seems like no one does that anymore)

Point is, know what the issues are, adjust accordingly, and then they are no longer issues. But of course, if you insist on having your seat like the recliner in your living room, you won't be able to set the mirrors properly, and if you refuse to actually move your head to see, then yes, you will have problems.

[outkastzgotti]

If you aren't used to driving a camaro then chances are you'll think the visibility is bad. Honestly if I drive anyone else's car that isn't a camaro I don't even use all the visibility that's available because I'm used to the limited views we have.

[dubrock]

Freight trucks do fine with "poor visibility." It's not like it's an insurmountable problem. This is just a special class of auto, and has to be treated as such.

[dubrock]

Originally Posted by Blazin383

Personally, I'd be perfectly happy if the Mustang out sells the Camaro by 10-1! I'd prefer a little exclusivity in my Car.

Amen!

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

Yeah, this thing really took off! Wow!

I am certainly not going to sit here and say that visibility in my 5th gen is perfect. In fact, when I first got it, I thought it was terrible.

Fast forward a year and a half and it's not so bad. I learned seat position, I have it placed where my line of vision is well above the door sill. This does leave a little challenge seeing a few stop lights at smaller intersections where the light is closer.

I find that the mirrors are adjustable so that I can see what's on my rear 1/4's, what's coming up behind me on either side and I cane see the front of the car in my side view and the rear of the other car in my rearview. So that is good.

The biggest thing is learning where the weak areas or "blind spots" are, and yes there are some, and being careful about those first. It has now become such a habit that I do it without thought. When backing up, it's a constant scan of all the rear views, and of course, actually turning my head and looking directly out of rear window, (seems like no one does that anymore)

Point is, know what the issues are, adjust accordingly, and then they are no longer issues. But of course, if you insist on having your seat like the recliner in your living room, you won't be able to set the mirrors properly, and if you refuse to actually move your head to see, then yes, you will have problems.

Agree completely, I drive vehicles with no visibility and have for years. It takes all those things you mentioned. I'll just have to decide if it's something I want to deal with in a pleasure vehicle. I do believe it makes you a more defensive driver when you're aware of the issue.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by dubrock

Amen!

That leads to 2002 all over again or a Camaro priced more than the Corvette...............unless the Mustang starts selling 500,000 or so per year to get you 10 to 1.

At it's current price point, the Camaro probably needs a volume about double the Corvette.