[Techn9cian805]

My "Hemi Master Race" Challanger SRT driving boss test drove my 16SS a few days ago and loved every bit about it, especially the sound that the Borla Atak I have on it produces, BUT.... he did have one big complaint about it, and as you guessed, it was the visibility. he said that because of the poor visibility and several blind spots, he would not want to buy it. he's only 50 years old but says that at his age he wouldn't trust his eyes and depth perception to risk it.

and one of my coworkers said that in 2013-2014 she was wanting to get herself a Camaro, but again, she got turned off being that she is about 5'5" and had a terrible time with visibility, so she instead bought a mustang.

Those are just a few of the many people who I have heard complain about the visibility issue that plagues the Camaros across the latest generations. it's a problem that needs to be addressed if they want to outsell the competition. minimizing it and playing it off is not gonna help.

I myself think its a problem, but with the blind spot sensors, and the back up assists, I can live with it, as long as I don't find myself in a situation where I have to parallel park in a tight spot or park head first near a curb or some other hazard for the front bumper.

for those who cant afford the higher trim packages that come with those blind spot aides, the problem is even bigger.

I took the risk and got the car and got used to it twice, once in a 14, and once for my 16. not everyone else is going to want to do the same.

[AZCamaroFan]

Originally Posted by dubrock

Amen!

Originally Posted by Number 3

That leads to 2002 all over again or a Camaro priced more than the Corvette...............unless the Mustang starts selling 500,000 or so per year to get you 10 to 1.

At it's current price point, the Camaro probably needs a volume about double the Corvette.

Exactly. Started seeing sentiment like that as soon as the 5thgen came out. i often wonder the ages of people around here because there seems to be a lack of historical context.
'hey i hope the camaro doesn't sell well next year so i can be exclusive and it can go out of production'. they'd never make it through the late 70s to mid 80s when Chevrolet was selling 150-300,000 Camaro's a year

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by Techn9cian805

My "Hemi Master Race" Challanger SRT driving boss test drove my 16SS a few days ago and loved every bit about it, especially the sound that the Borla Atak I have on it produces, BUT.... he did have one big complaint about it, and as you guessed, it was the visibility. he said that because of the poor visibility and several blind spots, he would not want to buy it. he's only 50 years old but says that at his age he wouldn't trust his eyes and depth perception to risk it.

and one of my coworkers said that in 2013-2014 she was wanting to get herself a Camaro, but again, she got turned off being that she is about 5'5" and had a terrible time with visibility, so she instead bought a mustang.

Those are just a few of the many people who I have heard complain about the visibility issue that plagues the Camaros across the latest generations. it's a problem that needs to be addressed if they want to outsell the competition. minimizing it and playing it off is not gonna help.

I myself think its a problem, but with the blind spot sensors, and the back up assists, I can live with it, as long as I don't find myself in a situation where I have to parallel park in a tight spot or park head first near a curb or some other hazard for the front bumper.

for those who cant afford the higher trim packages that come with those blind spot aides, the problem is even bigger.

I took the risk and got the car and got used to it twice, once in a 14, and once for my 16. not everyone else is going to want to do the same.

Well, again, we have examples of people, unfamiliar with the car, that get in it for a few minutes, and more likely than not, made only rudimentary adjustments to seats and mirrors. I was in a co-workers 15 GT and the visibility didn't seem all that much better than my car.

I agree that there are some visibility challenges in this car, maybe a little more so than most other "sport coupes", which by the very nature of design will have visibility issues.

I also agree that these challenges are way overblown in the media, and social media by people that have only spent a little time in the seat, and again, more likely than not, only made rudimentary adjustments to the seat and mirrors.

[Techn9cian805]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

Well, again, we have examples of people, unfamiliar with the car, that get in it for a few minutes, and more likely than not, made only rudimentary adjustments to seats and mirrors. I was in a co-workers 15 GT and the visibility didn't seem all that much better than my car.

I agree that there are some visibility challenges in this car, maybe a little more so than most other "sport coupes", which by the very nature of design will have visibility issues.

I also agree that these challenges are way overblown in the media, and social media by people that have only spent a little time in the seat, and again, more likely than not, only made rudimentary adjustments to the seat and mirrors.

exactly, they are unfamiliar with the car, first impressions are a big deal for many, and if your first impression of a car is that you may not be able to safely drive it, then why in the hell would you want to buy it when you can get something else that can perform about as well but without that visibility/safety issue? and how is making extra adjustments to your seating or mirrors everytime you have a different driving/parking scenario convenient or encouraging?

again, people need to stop down-playing the issue. its a pretty big one that I'm sure is turning people off to the Camaro brand.

it is not overblown, if the majority of reviewers agree that there is a visibility problem. if I didn't feel comfortable driving it, I wouldn't have bought it. but as a former truck driver, I have pretty sharp depth perception and know how to gauge my vehicle's size safely.

not everyone else can do the same, or are willing to take the time to develop the skill. some people just want a car that they can enjoy without any worries right as they leave the dealer lot.


and the Camaro is not that car.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

Well, again, we have examples of people, unfamiliar with the car, that get in it for a few minutes, and more likely than not, made only rudimentary adjustments to seats and mirrors. I was in a co-workers 15 GT and the visibility didn't seem all that much better than my car.

I agree that there are some visibility challenges in this car, maybe a little more so than most other "sport coupes", which by the very nature of design will have visibility issues.

I also agree that these challenges are way overblown in the media, and social media by people that have only spent a little time in the seat, and again, more likely than not, only made rudimentary adjustments to the seat and mirrors.

I jumped in my Equinox yesterday, which I had not drove in a while and because of all this visibility talk it made me conscious that the visibility in the SUV probably wouldn't be considered to be great by some, lol.

Glad to see that the Camaro won another Car of the Year award today, I wonder if GM would rather trade the awards and accolades for less complaining about the visibility?

They did exactly what their research and data told them that most customer's wanted and made the car smaller, more powerful and better handling while keeping the similar Camaro look.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Techn9cian805

exactly, they are unfamiliar with the car, first impressions are a big deal for many, and if your first impression of a car is that you may not be able to safely drive it, then why in the hell would you want to buy it when you can get something else that can perform about as well but without that visibility/safety issue? and how is making extra adjustments to your seating or mirrors everytime you have a different driving/parking scenario convenient or encouraging?

again, people need to stop down-playing the issue. its a pretty big one that I'm sure is turning people off to the Camaro brand.

it is not overblown, if the majority of reviewers agree that there is a visibility problem.

I have not seen one review where it was "agreed" that there is a major visibility problem or that they couldn't recommend the car because of the visibility or that it was dangerous. Every review ends the same way, highly recommended....if I am mistaken, please point us to the review.

It is about the same as it was in the 5th Gen's, better actually with the blind spot monitoring and the 5th Gen was the leader in sales for it's segment.

That is why some people think it is overblown. Not that it isn't an issue for some, but that for most it is not.

[Techn9cian805]

Originally Posted by merlin803

I have not seen one review were it was "agreed" that their is a major visibility problem or that they couldn't recommend the car because of the visibility or that it was dangerous. Every review ends the same way, highly recommended....if I am mistaken, please point us to the review.

It is about the same as it was in the 5th Gen's, better actually with the blind spot monitoring and the 5th Gen was the leader in sales for it's segment.

That is why some people think it is overblown. Not that it isn't an issue for some, but that for most it is not.

and every review is done by people who have prior experience driving sporty cars and know what they are doing for the most part (except for that one jalopnik idiot...) so that argument point doesn't hold much weight in the real world.

I'm talking about the new crowd that the mustang is selling to that Camaro needs to take from them. the poor visibility does not aspire confidence in younger drivers, those with pour vision, or those with bad depth perception, which the mustang is profiting from nicely, and will continue to do so if something is not done about it.

I would hate to sacrifice the styiling in exchange for improved visibility, but it might be something that needs to be done if all else fails.

It is about the same as it was in the 5th Gen's, better actually with the blind spot monitoring and the 5th Gen was the leader in sales for it's segment.

this only applies to those who can actually afford those higher trim options. and even then, it only helps a bit, doesn't solve the issue.
and it was the leader I think mostly because the last gen stang was butt ugly lol well, that's just my opinion. the new gen stang is a pretty one tho...

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Techn9cian805

and every review is done by people who have prior experience driving sporty cars and know what they are doing for the most part (except for that one jalopnik idiot...) so that argument point doesn't hold much weight in the real world.

I'm talking about the new crowd that the mustang is selling to that Camaro needs to take from them. the poor visibility does not aspire confidence in younger drivers, those with pour vision, or those with bad depth perception, which the mustang is profiting from nicely, and will continue to do so if something is not done about it.

I would hate to sacrifice the styiling in exchange for improved visibility, but it might be something that needs to be done if all else fails.

Your assuming that the visibility is the driving reason for the lower sales than Mustang....yet the for the 5th Gen it wasn't an issue....according to those same sales.

There is NO real data showing that visibility is the reason for lower sales.

[Memphis43]

Listen, the back glass in both the Mustang and Camaro are horrible. I've sat in them both one right after another.

Front visibility is better in the mustang but not by very much.

The side is where the biggest problem is.

When you look to the side of a mustang you can see all the way to the back quarter panel whereas the Camaro has the massive panel to accomodate looking like a 69.

There is no question that as a general public person I would choose the mustang over the Camaro simply for that reason.

This isn't really up for debate and I guarantee you the Camaro would be in a different situation sales wise if GM took a bigger risk and went outside of what the Camaro fan base wanted and decided to go with a global view.

With that being said, Chevy seems content siding with its current crop of customers and doesn't really want to expand (performance isn't an issue) past where it's at.

I sale these things. I love them. I will own one. But where Chevy decided to go with hardcore performance and technology, Ford went with design (which is inherently better to begin with as far as comfort and space) and went more with the global view on their design and marketing strategy.

It's showing too. Regardless if there aren't to many 4 bangers out right now. It won't make much of a difference.

Engineering is in no doubt in favor of the Camaro. Design is not. And right now the global public is showing which one they care more about.

Let's talk about marketing for a second as well. How many commercials do you see for the new Camaro?

How about the mustang and Ford in general. I know personally I have witnessed that ford has begun to tap into highly successful shows such as Gotham and the Blacklist (mustang)using the characters in commercials and getting the audience to participate in going to websites promoting the product through completing the story type commercials.

Chevy has truck ads and commercials promoting their vehicles through studies trying to change perception and Hawaii 5-0.




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[Techn9cian805]

Originally Posted by merlin803

Your assuming that the visibility is the driving reason for the lower sales than Mustang....yet the for the 5th Gen it wasn't an issue....according to those same sales.

There is NO real data showing that visibility is the reason for lower sales.

No. you quoted me too soon, I edited my post on to why I believe it outsold the last gen.
also there is no data to prove that it isn't

[Memphis43]

They are probably going to move to one of these two designs for the rear slope and window in the future



Instead of this




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[Mr. Wyndham]

Everyone can't be right in a debate if the debate is based on REAL facts that are brought forward....

I've never subscribed to the "Camaro is overpriced" theory...however, I can see plainly that it's the more expensive option. Not only that, Ford is slapping huge discounts on the Mustang, and selling tons more fleet cars. I believe whole-heartedly that those two factors are significantly more influential in the marketplace than the glass area from a function standpoint.

I totally understand that some people may feel uncomfortable driving it because of the design. This is not a Malibu, and everyone has varied levels of skill, and comfort levels. The Camaro requires a bit more out of a driver...But this issue IS being blown out of proportion, no doubt in my mind.

And I'd like to take this moment to say that I don't consider anyone wrong for not agreeing with the decision Camaro team made to go with the chopped roof design...

...but I do wonder why some who are so vehemently opposed to the greenhouse design and visibility...bought one, anyways?...Is it because, ultimately, you didn't mind? If so - that supports the decision making process that Camaro team went through, and renders the entire thread moot....food for thought.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Memphis43

They are probably going to move to one of these two designs for the rear slope and window in the future



Instead of this




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I don't think so.....the first will make matters worse...and both render usable trunk space to nearly 0...

And that's assuming that they decide to change it at all...We don't know if they think it effects sales...and we don't know if they're happy with sales or not...they seem to be, so far.

[Fraxum]

OP visibility does suffer from the styling and the high deck of the platform. So get over the complaints. The negative comments will keep on coming. To me also this is a negative of both of the last 2 Camaro generations. The 2015+ Mustang does it better with good looks and better visibility.

But while I too consider it a negative and happy to have a sunroof, you can get used to it. I still really enjoy my Camaro. People are free to express thier opinions just as you are free to rant about it.