[sstoronto]

With that pic of Courtney, I've (thankfully) lost all recollection of this topic!!! LOL!

[SPARTAN sui]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Don't know what to tell you, then. I have no blind spots. None. Zero. Zilch.

Same here. I find the blind spot monitoring redundant when traveling down the road. I can see vehicles entering my "blind spot" before the indicator on my side mirror is triggered.

[bballr4567]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I don't make a habit out of fooling myself. But I see no data or even convincing rationale to support your claim. The last generation had the same stigma, but it outsold the Mustang...could you explain that phenomenon?


Look...I very rarely say this, but there's just a couple people in here who seem to have a violently serious problem with this, and I appreciate that you feel that way so: Consider buying something else. It's one of the beneficial parts of having dozens of choices in the auto market, seriously...

What phenomenon? The S197 got barely outsold by a vastly newer vehicle. Now, we have the S550 and its DOUBLING the monthly sales of the Camaro. It will outsell the Camaro by some 50k units this year more than likely. That is the data. Right there.

You keep comparing it yesteryear though. Why not compare it to the new Mustang?

People are already buying something else. It's not the people who are on the forum that have an issue. It's Joe Snuffy and Suzie Q who want a stylish coupe that have an issue. The alpha Camaro could've easily sold 110-115k/year but that would've been a risk. GM is severly adverse to taking a risk now.

[Thor142]

I actually start glossing over the mostly sane, sometimes eloquent but somewhat repetitive debate to get to awesome posts like this one.

Originally Posted by laynlo15

Don't ****ing drive it then buy it and complain about the visibility. Really? I'm just fine with it, when your passing every asshole on the highway, so does it really matter anyway? It is getting really ridiculous. Don't buy it, buy a ****ing mustang or challenger and get your ass kicked all day long. Better yet, buy a 4 door sedan and have all visibility you want and you'll still get your ass kicked all day long. Get over it.

[SpeedIsLife]

GM is right to be conservative...there are very dark, ominous clouds on the economic horizon and trends. Sometimes it's good to be a bit smaller and more careful in uncertain times.

[merlin803]

I think we all can agree that this thread will never have a resolution.

Both sides of the argument can agree that the visibility is not great.

All that can be said is if you think it is a huge deal then make your voice heard, let GM know through reviews and above everything else, YOUR DOLLAR.

Buying the car is giving the OPPOSITE message and is in line with their research, showing that yes, the visibility is not great but it is also not a big deal and not worth changing the styling.

For most who bought the 5th and 6th Gen's, it is just not a big issue.

To say that it could affect sales is fair but to cite, with absolutely no real data or research that the reason, or even part of the reason is the visibility has no real basis and in fact, GM's research, the fact that most of you complaining still bought a Gen 6 AND the high sales of the Gen 5's contradict the point.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

What phenomenon? The S197 got barely outsold by a vastly newer vehicle. Now, we have the S550 and its DOUBLING the monthly sales of the Camaro. It will outsell the Camaro by some 50k units this year more than likely. That is the data. Right there.

You keep comparing it yesteryear though. Why not compare it to the new Mustang?

People are already buying something else. It's not the people who are on the forum that have an issue. It's Joe Snuffy and Suzie Q who want a stylish coupe that have an issue. The alpha Camaro could've easily sold 110-115k/year but that would've been a risk. GM is severly adverse to taking a risk now.

You ever stop and think that even if all things were equal, more people may buy the Mustang?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

What phenomenon? The S197 got barely outsold by a vastly newer vehicle. Now, we have the S550 and its DOUBLING the monthly sales of the Camaro. It will outsell the Camaro by some 50k units this year more than likely. That is the data. Right there.

You keep comparing it yesteryear though. Why not compare it to the new Mustang?

Because yesteryear is the only "big picture" reference we have. I'm trying to be scientific to weed through the emotion and opinion.

You're using sales as a foundation for your argument about how important visibility is. You suggest that better visibility is the reason the Mustang is selling more cars, and that increasing the glass area would directly result in increased sales for Camaro. Correct?

If so, then we should be able to look to last generation as a model for this theory. Camaro visibility was "poor" then, too. Therefore, Camaro sales should have been similarly as poor according to you.

But they weren't. Therefore, something else, NOT visibility, is causing lower sales this generation.

[bballr4567]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

You ever stop and think that even if all things were equal, more people may buy the Mustang?

Even being equal, yes, more people will likely buy the Mustang but not 50k more.

Wyndham, the Camaro isn't selling less this generation, in fact it was the only one to have a sales increase last month. It's just not selling at the quantity of the Mustang.

Yet, to compare the updated Zeta car to a platform that was on its last legs, S197, and say that visibility wasn't an issue because it outsold it is a little bit vague. Why not say that the SRA and drivability of the S197 caused it to have lower sales plus the Camaro being back certainly help boost its sales. Mustang had a 37% YoY sales increase when the new car came. The last year of the S197 still literally matched the Camaro neck for neck. Will the Camaro have a 37% increase this year?

Compare the new car to the new car. Which one is winning the sales race now?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

Even being equal, yes, more people will likely buy the Mustang but not 50k more.

Wyndham, the Camaro isn't selling less this generation, in fact it was the only one to have a sales increase last month. It's just not selling at the quantity of the Mustang.

Yet, to compare the updated Zeta car to a platform that was on its last legs, S197, and say that visibility wasn't an issue because it outsold it is a little bit vague. Why not say that the SRA and drivability of the S197 caused it to have lower sales plus the Camaro being back certainly help boost its sales. Mustang had a 37% YoY sales increase when the new car came. The last year of the S197 still literally matched the Camaro neck for neck. Will the Camaro have a 37% increase this year?

Compare the new car to the new car. Which one is winning the sales race now?

My point, exactly. I agree with everything you've just said. There are too many variables involved, and differences between the two cars to directly tie down visibility as the cause of lower sales.

It's even a stretch to assume that better visibility might "help", because there's just nothing solid to support that besides conjecture and opinion. Your opinion might be right...but it's only an opinion, and it's that opinion I disagree with, only.

[SpeedIsLife]

Something to keep in mind...both cars became less "practical" in the transition from their 5th Generations (Zeta II and S197) to their 6th Generations (S550 and Alpha). However, the Camaro simply went quite a bit further down that rabbit hole.

There are many, many factors as to why, but unless you literally survey everyone who had considered a Gen6 Camaro and then instead bought something else, you'll never get a clear trend as to the core of the issue.

[90503]

FWIW, the Challenger has always had the best visibility, trunk space, and rear seat room....but never once led in sales.

Not having the most visibility offered, is not a deal-breaker or proof of poor sales...

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by 90503

FWIW, the Challenger has always had the best visibility, trunk space, and rear seat room....but never once led in sales.

Not having the most visibility offered, is not a deal-breaker or proof of poor sales...

It's also been the most consistent in sales, steadily, if slowly, climbing upwards. It's never been leader, but it also doesn't have the peaky surges like the Camaro and Mustang.

[bballr4567]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Something to keep in mind...both cars became less "practical" in the transition from their 5th Generations (Zeta II and S197) to their 6th Generations (S550 and Alpha). However, the Camaro simply went quite a bit further down that rabbit hole.
There are many, many factors as to why, but unless you literally survey everyone who had considered a Gen6 Camaro and then instead bought something else, you'll never get a clear trend as to the core of the issue.

Bingo.

Originally Posted by 90503

FWIW, the Challenger has always had the best visibility, trunk space, and rear seat room....but never once led in sales.

Not having the most visibility offered, is not a deal-breaker or proof of poor sales...

Challenger also is a different type of car. It's the reason that the V6 sales are only about 30% of the cars volume. Challenger tugs at a lot of heart strings.