[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

So far, 61% of Camaro buyers have been trading in non-GM vehicles...I think they're being successful in having a broad appeal. And they're selling just as many cars (without a full lineup) as last generation. Just not in the sheer numbers we're hoping for, as enthusiasts.

Careful with that statistic as well. It goes both ways.

One it says you a great conquest rate. But with low sales the flip side says you haven't made a car that Camaro owners are running out to trade in as well.

I've seen both sides of those numbers.

But to say broad appeal you need to see what the 61% are actually trading in. Broad appeal means you are getting Civic Coupes, Accord Coupes, Altima Coupes, Lexus, BMW, MB.

Not arguing, it's a decent number on the surface. But the data behind that number is where the story is.

Also need that sales number broken down to age and sex.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by oldman

I'm just the opposite, I view the 1ss as clearly superior to the GT or Scat Pack. I view the V6 as clearly superior to BRZ, Civic SI, V6 Challenger, V6 and I4 Mustang, base WRX, Infinity Coupe/ 370Z, GTI, A4 Audi, 3 series base BMW. I view the I4 convertible, clearly superior from a DD stand point verse Miata, S70 Volvo.

For the V8 the 1ss base model is already significantly faster, this lead will only increase bolt on vs bolt on. The Challenger is at end of life, the Mustang has pushed forward the next chassis by 2 years. That is a LONG time for Camaros to be dominant on the street and the race track. I own a Challenger for looks and room. I own a 1SS cause it just bad to bone out the door with UNLIMTED tuning potential. I think this is 1998 all over again and there will be a decade of Camaro dominance in all forms of racing and what wins on race day sells Monday morning. The Challenger is still nicer.

I'm hoping it isn't 1998 all over again. That was the beginning of the end as the Camaro was dead within 4 years.

[mkorgan]

Originally Posted by camaro1&6

The aftermarket will be there for both 4 and 8, and just my experience there's no replacement for displacement. Size does matter and the weight difference isn't enough.

Amen.

[L&M CAMARO 6]

More options more sales for gm, 4-6 or V8 take your choice. Also 6 speed manual or 8 speed autotragic also your choice should make most everyone

[ChefBorOzzy]

Sounds like the SS convertible will be 3,850 pounds.

[camaro1&6]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I'm not defensive. I'm planning to purchase a Zxxx if/when it is released. I just wanted to offer an alternative viewpoint as far as the appeal.

Truth is, none of the Camaro models are true "muscle cars", anymore. They're all sports cars. Very nimble, and tightly tuned suspensions...and the four cylinder model offers a great entry level option for those who don't have 35+k available to spend on an 8, but still want style and legitimate performance.

The concept of a "Turbo 4" is also appealing to some buyers the same way a "V8" resonates with others.

It's a good option. But it's not for everybody, obviously. That's why we have options.

I don't disagree , I'm just old school and don't want to see the history of following the wrong direction that other manufacturers do. I'm sure there is a market for the 4 cylinder no doubt and if it helps keep the car in production that's great, ,, just not in my opinion what makes sense for me , I personally would never buy a 4 cylinder camaro. just like I would never buy a gas truck . My Duramax has over 600 hp I'm sure people think that's stupid but I'm a enthusiasts to that degree. That's what makes me feel good .

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I'm hoping it isn't 1998 all over again. That was the beginning of the end as the Camaro was dead within 4 years.

In those 4 years the LS1 was absolutely dominant in all forms from car to truck to boat.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Careful with that statistic as well. It goes both ways.

One it says you a great conquest rate. But with low sales the flip side says you haven't made a car that Camaro owners are running out to trade in as well.

I've seen both sides of those numbers.

But to say broad appeal you need to see what the 61% are actually trading in. Broad appeal means you are getting Civic Coupes, Accord Coupes, Altima Coupes, Lexus, BMW, MB.

Not arguing, it's a decent number on the surface. But the data behind that number is where the story is.

Also need that sales number broken down to age and sex.

I sold my Civic SI, and I got off the fence waiting for the Type R.

The I4 convertible is going to move a lot of kids like mine to it, they want manual, they want cheaper, they understand there are huge downsides in a Miata, 18 wheels being one of them. I'm seriously thinking of a new Miata to replace my Challenger as I don't have a autoX, the Type R is move of a rice killer in drag... too much HP and too little tire. I'll wait but I would be interested in either the 1le V6 or the convertible I4 depending on the whims of the next few months. Right now if I was going to pull the trigger, I'd probably roll the Miata.

[90503]

The Turbo 4 will absolutely, positively increase Camaro sales. Part of the target audience for the 4 are buyers who would never consider a V-6 or a V-8 regardless of price, image, available mods or perceived performance....

Unlike before, most 4cyl Camaro buyers probably won't give two cents about "upgrading" or "trading up" to a different power-plant, and won't even consider them when shopping the car. Any comparisons will fall on deaf ears. It's a Turbo 4, or no Camaro at all.

[ssrs2lt]

I'm glad for more options, bring em in and keep the camaro alive..just have be careful with pricing, too high won't compete...i just watched the cheesey tv show motorweek compare the stang, challenger and camaro..the camaro crushed performance, but not price..

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by camaro1&6

I don't disagree , I'm just old school and don't want to see the history of following the wrong direction that other manufacturers do. I'm sure there is a market for the 4 cylinder no doubt and if it helps keep the car in production that's great, ,, just not in my opinion what makes sense for me , I personally would never buy a 4 cylinder camaro. just like I would never buy a gas truck . My Duramax has over 600 hp I'm sure people think that's stupid but I'm a enthusiasts to that degree. That's what makes me feel good .

No argument from me!

I'm glad you know what you like. It means you'll be able to enjoy it, more!

[RenegadeSS]

Originally Posted by kcpoloman

Ive been staying tuned to this car. Seems like its going to be a fun Camaro thats really affordable. Cant wait to see what the aftermarket does to pump up the power. Im curious what the limits of the 2.0 are. Also love the fact that this car weighs less.

On stock internals the LTG can handle 400 bhp, but the manual trans is rated at 370 torque max. While either of those numbers are wesome for this car. As far as the aftermarket, s concerned, many companies are already ahead of the ball curve. Checkout what ZZP has. http://zzperformance.com/ats/camshafts-valvetrain.html

[Tr6]

Thanks a mill for the info Wyndham! I am actually looking forward to seeing these out on the road and very, VERY curious of the aftermarket developments of it. Boosted cars tend to be VERY easily modifiable and knowing the base of gen6 being pretty damn good, I can see a lot of potential for it. Coming from 2 evo x's, I will always have a soft spot for the aftermarket aspect of 2.0(ish) cars haha.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by RenegadeSS

On stock internals the LTG can handle 400 bhp, but the manual trans is rated at 370 torque max. While either of those numbers are wesome for this car. As far as the aftermarket, s concerned, many companies are already ahead of the ball curve. Checkout what ZZP has. http://zzperformance.com/ats/camshafts-valvetrain.html

those cams are super tiny compared to the Honda world. Does this engine have variable lift and duration like the Malibu?