[hubb1e]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

Huh? It was brought up that people wont buy the 2.0T because you can trim them up to V8 costs and that people will just buy the V8 which is completely false.

Again, fiscally wise people do not buy new cars. They dont. It's been proven over and over again that buying a new car is the worst investment you can make. Doesnt matter what brand it is.

Maybe fiscally wise people with your income don't buy new cars, but fiscally wise people with high incomes and good savings CAN buy new cars. They may choose to buy new cars and keep them for awhile, and they may choose to buy a car below what they can actually afford. My point is that I can afford any car I want but I choose to shop less than $50k because that is a way I can maintain my hobby of liking cars and not have it impact my bank account. My area is filled with multi million dollar homes with new Honda Accords parked in front of them. I consider these people fiscally wise.

[OldJedi]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Not so much of a comparison, but here is an excerpt from Motor Trend.

"If you get sick of all the noise (why would you?), the cabin remains impressively quiet for a convertible with the top up."

Thanks, I have not seen that article yet.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by OldJedi

Thank you Mr, Wyndham for a wonderful and very well written review. I see why Chevy invites you to these events, but I'm still jealous. I would like your opinion and observations about how quiet the convertible was with the top up compared to the coupe. Thanks and I hope you had fun while you were there as well. Talk to you soon.

It's not as quiet as the coupe, but the top has multiple layers of fabric that does dampen noises quite a bit. I left it down, but when up - I was surprised and just how "coupe-like", the car felt.

[Techn9cian805]

Im laughing at all these "fiscally wise" posts. Fiscally wise people dont buy camaroa period, they buy used hybrids.

Im happy being fiscally ignorant.

The T4 does sound pretty awesome tho. If i had the bank rolls for it, i would love to have a second camaro, a nice hyper blue T4 to sit next to my SS and swap out when the mood hits. Ive always been a fan of lightweight blown 4bangers. I look forward to seeing what the tuners do with it.

[enzia35]

I sort of want to test drive the 4 now. I've never driven a turbo'd car before.

[OldJedi]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

It's not as quiet as the coupe, but the top has multiple layers of fabric that does dampen noises quite a bit. I left it down, but when up - I was surprised and just how "coupe-like", the car felt.

Thanks, and again thanks for great review.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Techn9cian805

Im laughing at all these "fiscally wise" posts. Fiscally wise people dont buy camaroa period, they buy used hybrids.

Im happy being fiscally ignorant.

Ignorant is when one is unaware of something....arrogant is when you do it anyways.

I, too...love spending money I'll never get back when the dividend is a Camaro.

Originally Posted by Techn9cian805

The T4 does sound pretty awesome tho. If i had the bank rolls for it, i would love to have a second camaro, a nice hyper blue T4 to sit next to my SS and swap out when the mood hits. Ive always been a fan of lightweight blown 4bangers. I look forward to seeing what the tuners do with it.

It would make a helluva daily driver. But year...money is always the obstacle. Imagine a 1LE in the garage for track days, a 2SS convertible for weekends and nice days, and a 4 cylinder for everything else.

Originally Posted by enzia35

I sort of want to test drive the 4 now. I've never driven a turbo'd car before.

You're not going to notice the "woosh" Fast and Furious stuff...but it is a different driving experience, for sure, compared to a naturally aspirated, or even a supercharged car.

Originally Posted by OldJedi

Thanks, and again thanks for great review.

You betcha! By the way, I haven't forgotten about your email...just been real busy.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

It would make a helluva daily driver. But year...money is always the obstacle. Imagine a 1LE in the garage for track days, a 2SS convertible for weekends and nice days, and a 4 cylinder for everything else.

That might help fix the slow sales

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Number 3

That might help fix the slow sales

Funny you mentioned that.

Part of the presentation of the 1LE preview last month, was that Camaro has the fastest sales in the segment (little time on lots). And part of their presentation at this event mentioned that the Camaro experienced its best January sales since 1999, in this 2016 calendar year.

Everyone I spoke to appears pleased with sales figures, while of course, everyone would like to sell more cars just on principal. They're hitting targets, and making money...which is most important for the survival of the nameplate...

[oldman]

I got a V6 Challenger, hot rodded it upto a supercharger, gave it to the daughters, they went to college and left it in the yard. I could see me buying them a convertible T4. The V6 Challenger had great handling at 3750 lbs and P zero nero summer, cop suspension, it was a little slow till the converter and supercharger. I see the T4 as a fix for all those issues right from the factory.

All my kids race manuals and the daughters prefer an M6, some lucky college guys will be dating Texas Women, pink gun and M6 are all part of the package. The V6 Challenger was auto only, probably another reason the kids just abandoned it at my house... lucky they did not light it on fire in a field.

So to sum it up I see the T4 convertible for the daughters as: cheap, quick, great handling potential, easy on fuel, looks good, they would like it, and can be had in M6. They see it as fun and dad's paying for it.

[camaro1&6]

Originally Posted by TSloper

The 4 cylinder will shine in the aftermarket. In a couple of years stock V8s will be getting their butts handed to them by modded 4 cylinders.

The aftermarket will be there for both 4 and 8, and just my experience there's no replacement for displacement. Size does matter and the weight difference isn't enough.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by camaro1&6

The aftermarket will be there for both 4 and 8, and just my experience there's no replacement for displacement. Size does matter and the weight difference isn't enough.

Of course, the V8 can also be modified. The entry level Camaro will not be a viable option for anyone able to afford the SS...but there is no doubt that the 4-cylinder will be more easily suped-up, with the turbo being already there, by those who already own one. 300-350hp should be cheap and easy to do with these cars.

I don't think anyone here thinks you cannot also modify the V8.

[oldman]

My first Type R at 1.8 liters 195 HP went to 1.8 sleeved 400ish streetable HP (turbo size limited due to choke on the bottom end) with turbo 2450 lbs.

My current Type R with a sleeved 2.1 built for a turbo but no turbo yet is at 275 HP 2400 lbs. Estimated HP with the turbo I'm setting up is somewhere around 475HP to 525 HP (depending primarily on exhaust size, my choices range from 60mm all the way to 75mm, 3inch for mericans) . Once again top end HP is limited by how big a turbo I can run and NOT entering the choke zone on the bottom end). Choke is where the turbo is making boost but the engine is not consuming the flow, the air is beaten up at the compressor edge leading to a superheated condition that damages the wheel. This happens whenever the engine is lugged. Modern controls take some of this out, the new turbo inlets help choke issues. No matter what there are limits to a non-factory turbo setup and it is always the choke potential on the bottom end for a DD, especially one in a heavy car.

If I were to build a 2.0 T4, I'd start with the VTEC (whatever chevy calls it) 2.4 Malibu engine, sleeved, and target 600 HP. With a specially ground VTEC intake cam of about 304 duration, .515" lift. 286 duration exhaust .500 lift. I've been building variable valve lift and duration engines for a long time. I assume the Camaro engine has the new lift and duration camshaft (with phaser), but dunno. Virtually all previous if not all previous GM use variable overlap technology via cam phaser and this is INFERIOR to a true variable lift and duration technology. BTW the Honda used VTEC AND cam phasing on the K engines since 2000.


I just sold my 2015 supercharged Civic SI, 2.4 liter, 330 HP 3000 lbs, (bolt on only). There are guys in central Texas over 450 HP supercharged and another 50 to 75 HP turbo on daily drivers. Just to let you know the potential of a 2.0 to 2.4 liter engine with variable valve technology and a turbo. NONE of these Honda engines are built for boost, none have DI. Hence I estimate 600 HP for a properly built ecotec (+75 HP over a Honda). Honda is going to a turbo DI this year for the K, already out at 305 HP 2.0 in Europe.

Please note all my estimates are daily drivers, true get in and turn the key, cause if you race Hondas everybody and his brother have daily drivers at 650 HP and when I check their engine out it does not even have an air filter over the turbo.. Just saying.

[richm]

I find it interesting that people are calling the T4 "cheap"? It's only $1500 cheaper than the V6!! Most Camaros will be selling from $35K to $50K+, which definitely is not an inexpensive car.