[DevonK]

Originally Posted by Noob

hm, perhaps your US mirrors are very small ?
I noticed on the Camaro EU versions bigger mirrors. yes they are ugly but perhaps much better for safety ?

The EU legal requirements for side view mirrors are more stringent than those in NA. Car designers like to keep those mirrors as small as possible for stylistic and airflow/wind noise reasons, but the tiny mirrors used over here won't meet the EU requirements, hence the bigger mirrors in Europe (the Mustang has the same divergence). Personally I wish the EU specs were universal.

[DevonK]

Originally Posted by Tr6

Haha, very true. Don't get me wrong, I do want to hear the BAD about the car that I just ordered and no one has owned one (aka, no real review or knowledge of the car). But when you have everyone raving and loving it, 1 review being "meh", that is just damn wrong.

I'm always pretty skeptical of the rosy reviews most auto journos post after first drives (which are typically taken on high-priced junkets, paid for by the manufacturer). Jack Baruth and a few others in the business have made it clear that most of these hacks are very unlikely to write anything that might compromise their future ability to once again jump on that gravy train. Being frozen out of future drive events is a terrifying career prospect for these guys.

Best to look at the comparative reviews that come out well after a car's introduction, when the intense pressure to produce favourable initial assessments has passed. I can't count the number of times when initial, wholly laudatory first drives have been followed up with far more critical evaluations in comparative or long-term tests (see: S550 Mustang, Toyobaru twins).

[joemosfet]

Originally Posted by KarFan

I've heard this a few times now. I'm not blaming the Camaro deciples, other enthusiasts or those in focus groups but I would be very curious as how this question about visibility was posed to them. Better sightlines should be seen as a positive especially on a sports coupe and certainly after the 5th Gen it should be seen as an area in need of improvement.
However, GM has stuck to this story that they were told not to change the compromised visibility. But If thy asked "Camaro owners" if visibility needed to be improved but that it would detract from the styling of the car then I could see people not wanting that.
But I don't think improving sightlines and lowering the belt line of the car would have detracted from the overall style of the car.

But as we have seen in this thread some people take the compromised sightlines as some kind of an attack on the car and maybe to a lesser extent themselves which shouldn't be viewed that way. So maybe they didn't get honest answers.

The way I understand it, is that GM had several designs that increased visibility, but those changed were rejected by focus groups when presented as they didn't really look like a Camaro. So it's not that they were told not to change the visibility, but rather they were unable to majorly change the visibility without drastically altering the overall look of the vehicle.

[AZCamaroFan]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Just to be clear, your mirrors don't help you backing out of your driveway onto a busy street.

You can depend on technology all you want with blind spot systems and you can ensure a child isn't behind you with a rear view camera.

Numerous situations are not improved with mirrors or technology. In the end, all things being equal, visibility will be a deciding factor for many buyers. And in this case, the Camaros superior performance will offset that decision.

Poor outward visibility makes a car feel smaller, more cramped. And for people that aren't on this website everyday who don't run to the Chevy dealer to drool over new products, this WILL be a deciding factor for purchase.

How many people do you know that go, "ya know, I'm seriously looking for a car with a high belt line, a slammed roof and really tiny quarter windows. I'm just tired of seeing what is around me". I'll vote few to none.

Most of us here just want a better Camaro. They gave us that.

I wanted a GREAT Camaro. And GM missed.

JMO and I understand why some just don't give a crap about this.

I don't understand those that are making it a personal and emotional issue.

i think they made a great Camaro, but the visibility is one thing they decided not to do anything about. GM has really fallen in love with the high beltline. You don't need that to have a great looking car. go look at the new Ferrari's compared to the Corvette. Beltline is lower, driver's shoulder is above the bottom of the window. Mirror's don't always help. you want to be able to turn your head and look.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

i think they made a great Camaro, but the visibility is one thing they decided not to do anything about. GM has really fallen in love with the high beltline. You don't need that to have a great looking car. go look at the new Ferrari's compared to the Corvette. Beltline is lower, driver's shoulder is above the bottom of the window. Mirror's don't always help. you want to be able to turn your head and look.

It is a great Camaro, no doubt.

But here is the stuff we are (are not getting) in 2016.

Smaller trunk
Smaller back seat

For people wanting a car for other reasons than being better than a Mustang, these things matter.

GM has convinced themselves that styling wins. And for a lot of people that is all it will ever take. It would take panel van visibility for some to ever admit this car has poor visibility. And I'm talking about the one that has no glass in the rear doors

GM people were quoted as saying things like, well for Consumer Reports, you get a 1 out of 5 for rear seat roominess in a coupe so we aren't going to get any worse by making the rear seat even smaller.

And the bigger deal is that for this much better car, they are charging much more money. A lot are complaining that they jacked it too much for what they are getting.

And again, I have yet to sit in one or drive one. So I openly admit that the "right foot rule" may apply here. That is the rule that states that what happens when you apply your right foot to accelerator, all things deficient are forgiven.

My final decision will be based on the roominess of the car, ability in a jam to get people in the rear seat (otherwise get a Corvette......seriously) and the ability to get 2 sets of golf clubs and luggage in the trunk. And that "right foot rule".................that may matter a LOT.

[Zack46]

Look, for people who hate the visibility either get used to it (by adjusting mirrors correctly and learn to live with it) OR just don't buy the car AND continue being happy driving your Toyota.

Now, If you want a really cool looking, sinister looking and down right in your face attitude CAR, there has to be a trade-off or 2 (two).

Know what I mean?

[detltu]

Originally Posted by Zack46

Look, for people who hate the visibility either get used to it (by adjusting mirrors correctly and learn to live with it) OR just don't buy the car AND continue being happy driving your Toyota.

Now, If you want a really cool looking, sinister looking and down right in your face attitude CAR, there has to be a trade-off or 2 (two).

Know what I mean?

Yep. My wife's Infinity QX60 has great visibility lots of room and plenty of cool technology. It's an SUV.

A lot of people complain because they think GM could have changed the lines and not sacrificed anything. That's simply not true. Maybe its weight, maybe style, maybe safety, maybe cost, but something would have to be sacrificed.

The only way to tell if the visibility is an issue for you is to sit in the car and take it for a test drive. It hasn't been an issue for my 5th gen, but I'm 5'10" and do a good job of adjusting my mirrors (it really is important people). If you are particularly short or tall it may not work for you. Just give it a shot an make a decision. There is no use crying about it. When the 7th gen approaches make sure to make your feelings known that visibility is the most important thing to you and maybe the 7th gen will be more to your liking.

[Stex]

Originally Posted by Zack46

Look, for people who hate the visibility either get used to it (by adjusting mirrors correctly and learn to live with it) OR just don't buy the car AND continue being happy driving your Toyota.

Now, If you want a really cool looking, sinister looking and down right in your face attitude CAR, there has to be a trade-off or 2 (two).

Know what I mean?

Enjoy the cave. Other choices are not limited to toyos...from C&D current review...it is ok if the Camaro is criticized...you know what I mean...

"we’re getting ahead of ourselves. That styling—with its narrow slits for side windows, fat C-pillar, and short rear glass—has, indeed, done nothing to improve the outward visibility in this new car. It is abysmal. We adjusted to it, partly by accelerating hard before performing lane changes just to clear some room. Adjust your mirrors carefully. The interior of the Ford Mustang feels ballroom-spacious by comparison.

The tanklike construction also prevents much light from entering the cabin, which, even with our test car’s bright-red upholstery accents, makes every drive in the Camaro feel like an adventure in spelunking. It’s not all bad news inside, though."

[Bongos2U]

I wonder if GM has a back up plan regarding the styling. It has been mentioned before that there were several designs that did not get green lit that did improve the visibility.

If sales aren't that great after the Camaro being out for a year, would they do a mid-cycle "refresh" with different styling (to differentiate it more from the 5th gen.) and better visibility ?


Time will tell.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Bongos2U

I wonder if GM has a back up plan regarding the styling. It has been mentioned before that there were several designs that did not get green lit that did improve the visibility.

If sales aren't that great after the Camaro being out for a year, would they do a mid-cycle "refresh" with different styling (to differentiate it more from the 5th gen.) and better visibility ?


Time will tell.

Don't think you are going to be able to make that kind of change to the core structure of the vehicle. We aren't talking front/rear clips, bumpers or hoods like refreshes typically change.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Don't think you are going to be able to make that kind of change to the core structure of the vehicle. We aren't talking front/rear clips, bumpers or hoods like refreshes typically change.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

From what I can tell, the 2011 Dodge Charger's rear side windows were smoothed out, eliminating the sharp uptick in the glass, which I hear improved visibility on that car. I believe the only other thing that was changed from the 2010 model were the taillights.

The 2016 Camaro has this same uptick. Not trying to compare a Camaro to a Charger, but if Chevy did the same, it would probably help with visibility (?). Maybe in a couple of model years?

[papacj]

Originally Posted by Zack46

Look, for people who hate the visibility either get used to it (by adjusting mirrors correctly and learn to live with it) OR just don't buy the car AND continue being happy driving your Toyota.

didnt realize the only other option with decent visibility is a toyota. Thx for that analysis

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Bongos2U

From what I can tell, the 2011 Dodge Charger's rear side windows were smoothed out, eliminating the sharp uptick in the glass, which I hear improved visibility on that car. I believe the only other thing that was changed from the 2010 model were the taillights.

The 2016 Camaro has this same uptick. Not trying to compare a Camaro to a Charger, but if Chevy did the same, it would probably help with visibility (?). Maybe in a couple of model years?

The Charger is a much bigger car so making that kind of tweak actually made a difference. Changing the side window won't improve what is the real problem on the 6th gen (the hips and back window). Doubt they can put in a bigger back window without additional structure reinforcement.

[DevonK]

Originally Posted by papacj

didnt realize the only other option with decent visibility is a toyota. Thx for that analysis

Actually I'd go Honda - they have such incredible upwards visibility you don't even need a sunroof/moonroof.