[fradaj]

A 2016 Camaro SS should beat the Mustang GT with the performance pack in pretty much every category. The 2015 SS 1LE equals or surpasses the 2015 Mustang already.

[fradaj]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

It may well do, but unlike the current car which has looks I have lusted after from the beginning "(Damn good looks that they are!)" when they couldn't deliver the visually promised performance, the new cars simply doesn't, to quote James May, give me the fizz. I was at the reveal on Belle Isle, and I'm sorry but the look was similar to the current car, but as if drawn by a blind man having the car described to him. So disappointed as I was excited about a lighter Camaro. Numbers are great, and feel is better...but I'm an Art Director by trade and as a result a very shallow man. Camaro has lost me this round, but for now I get the pleasure of deciding if my next car is a Corvette, Porsche, GT350... or perhaps even a used Z/28. Next year will reveal the answer.

Now dig on the Camaro though, if the looks are your cup of tea (the blue was stunning), this is a better all around car than the current model, for sure.

I think once you start seeing the 2016 Camaro on the street it might start growing on you.

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by V6CamaroRS

Physics is a cruel mistress. The sad part is that we'll probably never see another Camaro with looks quite that badass again. The circumstances of its creation were rather unique and unlikely to be repeated. That being said, the Camaro 6 is a damn good looking car in its own right. I expect some of the oddities in its design (e.g. Toilet bowl hood) to get rectified with small sight line changes over the next few model years.

I've seen that toilet bowl comment made by some Mustang boys..... I understand it's a jab similar to the previous Mustang having a Kim Kardashian sized @ss, but I just don't see it.

It's actually one of the finest looking hoods to come out of auto design in a very long time.

The view you will only see from an airplane.....


The view you will see.....


The view Mustang boys will see.....

[jrpimp00]

How can a website (Camaro6) beat a car, lol.

[khell86]

Originally Posted by Mr Twisty

I've seen that toilet bowl comment made by some Mustang boys..... I understand it's a jab similar to the previous Mustang having a Kim Kardashian sized @ss, but I just don't see it.

It's actually one of the finest looking hoods to come out of auto design in a very long time.

The view you will only see from an airplane.....


The view you will see.....


The view Mustang boys will see.....

After seeing these pictures i'm starting to think this new camaro is pretty busy looking. So many different lines and what not.

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by khell86

After seeing these pictures i'm starting to think this new camaro is pretty busy looking. So many different lines and what not.

There was the same chatter about the 5th gen before it was seen in person.....


If you want me to take you seriously, you'll need to be more specific.

[edit] Nevermind.... I just read your last 30 posts on here..... :troll:

[Cody6.2]

Not to be blunt but this and any thread taking guesses at performance let alone speaking of any kind of dominance is stupid. The curb weight of the Gen 6 has yet to be released so any proof of any major loss is impossible. GM saying it's bested the 1LE doesn't mean it handles better it's most likely the added power. After all a 2015 1LE with an LT1 dropped in it would be quicker around a track too.

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by Cody6.2

Not to be blunt but this and any thread taking guesses at performance let alone speaking of any kind of dominance is stupid. The curb weight of the Gen 6 has yet to be released so any proof of any major loss is impossible. GM saying it's bested the 1LE doesn't mean it handles better it's most likely the added power. After all a 2015 1LE with an LT1 dropped in it would be quicker around a track too.

Bench racing, as you've said previously, is older than you are. To call it stupid is in itself, stupid.

The new car is lighter, stiffer, more powerful. The actual chassis tuning is yet to be determined, but I'll venture a guess and say the new car with mag option and 6-piston brembo will still eat the 1LE with the equivalent hp.... and ride better as a daily driver.

..... see what we did there?

[V6CamaroRS]

Originally Posted by Cody6.2

Not to be blunt but this and any thread taking guesses at performance let alone speaking of any kind of dominance is stupid. The curb weight of the Gen 6 has yet to be released so any proof of any major loss is impossible. GM saying it's bested the 1LE doesn't mean it handles better it's most likely the added power. After all a 2015 1LE with an LT1 dropped in it would be quicker around a track too.

I would take Al O's repeated assurances of a 200-300 lb weight loss as pretty well proven. He's said it enough times and emphatically enough that Chevy would get in a lot of trouble if they failed to deliver.

The situation is a lot different than everyone hanging on David P.'s pre-production comment of "200 pounds is within our grasp".

In any case, the superiority of the Gen 6 Camaro is simply my opinion. I'm saying that I recognize an engineering situation that bodes extremely well for the Camaro 6. I could be completely wrong at the end of the day. This is all just educated speculation until the car hits the streets. If you'd like to offer your opinion and the basis for that opinion, by all means feel free to do so.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by V6CamaroRS

I would take Al O's repeated assurances of a 200-300 lb weight loss as pretty well proven. He's said it enough times and emphatically enough that Chevy would get in a lot of trouble if they failed to deliver.

The situation is a lot different than everyone hanging on David P.'s pre-production comment of "200 pounds is within our grasp".

In any case, the superiority of the Gen 6 Camaro is simply my opinion. I'm saying that I recognize an engineering situation that bodes extremely well for the Camaro 6. I could be completely wrong at the end of the day. This is all just educated speculation until the car hits the streets. If you'd like to offer your opinion and the basis for that opinion, by all means feel free to do so.

I think we all agree that for model year 16 that will be the case. As the 15 SS already outperforms the GT.

Only issues I have is the way I read your posts I view it as your saying the that Ford won't do anything and that the 6th Gen will dominate through its life.

Maybe in 17 Ford lets some tech from the 350 trickle down to the GT, maybe they tweak the HP. Ford has responded quickly in the last years of the S197 which is why I don't think one car or the other would crush the competition for more than a year or so. I see lots of good back and forth as both companies are pushing each other to make the best cars possible

[V6CamaroRS]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I think we all agree that for model year 16 that will be the case. As the 15 SS already outperforms the GT.

Only issues I have is the way I read your posts I view it as your saying the that Ford won't do anything and that the 6th Gen will dominate through its life.

So to clarify, I believe the Camaro will dominate for the next few years. While all the clues are there, I don't believe Ford is prepared for just how far Chevy has pushed in their re-engineering effort. Ford has been using more classical responses to what I see as paradigm shifts. It's only once you recognize that Chevy has been playing with a self-imposed handicap that you realize just how amazing this next gen will be.

Will Ford respond? Absolutely. Can they "win" certain metrics? Probably. You can always throw a bigger engine in there, right? (*nod to Chrysler*) But the rebalancing of engineering components will take Ford a few years to figure out. Not only will they eventually crack it, but Chevy will reach a point of diminishing returns on their designs to where the company will want to "catch their breath" offering their competitors valuable time.

This is similar to the specialization / commoditization cycles you see in most markets. One player will outcompete existing players by changing the game entirely. But it only lasts for a short while as their solution eventually gets commoditized by the market. Often this can cause the company on top to then follow the competitors it displaced into bankruptcy.

I don't think the cycle is that extreme in this case, but there are parallels in my mind.

Maybe in 17 Ford lets some tech from the 350 trickle down to the GT, maybe they tweak the HP. Ford has responded quickly in the last years of the S197 which is why I don't think one car or the other would crush the competition for more than a year or so. I see lots of good back and forth as both companies are pushing each other to make the best cars possible

Maybe. Again, I think they can win in certain metrics as they push back. But I think Chevy is going to effortlessly keep them at bay for the next three years. Within 3 - 5 years Ford will either catch up (parity) or provide a crushing response to Chevy that they didn't expect. By then Chevy's pipeline for new tech will probably have stabilized and narrowed, leaving them unprepared.

Normally I'd also consider employee cross-pollination as a way for companies to "steal" ideas from each other. With what I've seen of the car industry, however, that seems like less of a factor.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I think we all agree that for model year 16 that will be the case. As the 15 SS already outperforms the GT.

Only issues I have is the way I read your posts I view it as your saying the that Ford won't do anything and that the 6th Gen will dominate through its life.

Maybe in 17 Ford lets some tech from the 350 trickle down to the GT, maybe they tweak the HP. Ford has responded quickly in the last years of the S197 which is why I don't think one car or the other would crush the competition for more than a year or so. I see lots of good back and forth as both companies are pushing each other to make the best cars possible

This.

The fact that modern pony cars are anything but static targets is what makes them great.

[NASTY99Z28]

The camaro will be quicker for a year maybe two but we know that Ford will respond faster than Chevy will. I have no doubt that it'll get a bump in power with a 20-50lb weight lose during a Mid cycle update. At that point it'll take back the crown. Competition is your best friend. I hope the next chally really steps ups the pony car game.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

The camaro will be quicker for a year maybe two but we know that Ford will respond faster than Chevy will. I have no doubt that it'll get a bump in power with a 20-50lb weight lose during a Mid cycle update. At that point it'll take back the crown. Competition is your best friend. I hope the next chally really steps ups the pony car game.

Has a Mustang, Camaro, or Challenger ever lost weight mid life cycle? Maybe if there is a new engine/trans, but most cars gain weight during their life cycle. Maybe they will repackage the PP with some of the lightweight parts of the GT350 and drop weight that way.