[trademaster]

Originally Posted by Number 3

You know all they did was add a second motor right?

The increased efficiency is a result of that.

Nothing new here. In fact it's actually a lighter way to get AWD. You eliminate the need for a transfer case and associated drive shafts. Which how the weight was kept low.

Cool, like I said, but adding a second motor is not a game changer. Nor is a 10% increase in range. The Volt gained 10% with it's new battery a few years ago and no one was calling that a game changer either.................because it isn't.

This is very cool. Just not a unique or new idea to add a second electric motor. There have been prototypes over the years with one motor per wheel.

Results change the game, not concepts. Facebook didn't invent online social networking services and Apple sure as hell didn't invent the smartphone or even make the one with the best hardware. This is an electric luxury sedan that starts around z06 price with more power than z06, it has greater range than the current version that has been very popular, and it has AWD. It is a big deal.

[xc_SS/RS]

Originally Posted by trademaster

Results change the game, not concepts. Facebook didn't invent online social networking services and Apple sure as hell didn't invent the smartphone or even make the one with the best hardware. This is an electric luxury sedan that starts around z06 price with more power than z06, it has greater range than the current version that has been very popular, and it has AWD. It is a big deal.

When the iPhone came out there was no phone that could compete with it until the iPhone 4/4S came out. This car is showing what Tesla can do with existing concepts. That concept is put a new motor on the front and get all wheel drive/more power which has been done by the Porsche 918 as well as the new Lamborghini Asterion.

I think what people are talking about here is, while this is a step towards greater EV efficiency, its not a major step towards getting normal citizens out of gasoline powered cars. That will happen with the sub $25k 250+ mile range car that can be quick charged at one of those stations, when the quick charge stations can charge the battery faster, and when there are more quick charging stations overall.

Still fast as shit. I would totally buy one if I could.

[hotlap]

A German just transferred to our office and knowing I'm an auto enthusiast, he showed me the BMW i3 electric car with extended range and told me he was picking one up that night. The next day he showed up with a 428i.

When it came time to vote with his pocket, the i3's $45,200 base price didnt look good compared to the 428i's $40,600. (Internet price as I don't know actual $)

Electric cars are far from being affordable and I believe that nothing in life is free. The energy and operating cost savings will be balanced or exceeded with higher manufacturing energy and manufacturing/maintenance/disposal costs. Basic law that governs energy...

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.
― Albert Einstein

[SeaCompiler]

Electric motors have torque from the time they start spinning and onwards. It's why they are used to power locomotives - diesel is used to just power the electric generators. All electric cars pretty much outrun any gas engine in a drag race. There is nothing really astonishing about it to me except the price. Who is going to spend 50K+ more for an electric car - re-couping the fuel cost diff on that is a deal-breaker to money-minded buyers. Electric is not even a good alternative in my opinion until households can generate enough via solar power off the grid. We burn fossil fuels to make electricity in many areas, so what are you really gaining.

This is a nice looking eco-fiendly car no doubt, for once. Nothing worth spreading the word about to me.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by trademaster

Results change the game, not concepts. Facebook didn't invent online social networking services and Apple sure as hell didn't invent the smartphone or even make the one with the best hardware. This is an electric luxury sedan that starts around z06 price with more power than z06, it has greater range than the current version that has been very popular, and it has AWD. It is a big deal.

What you are saying is taking someone else's idea and implementing it makes you the innovator. Well then Huzzah for Toyota. That is what they have done for 50 years or more.

You guys are just buying the hype. And that's ok, that's how marketing works.

[KMPrenger]

I still think the Volt is the closest and best thing we've got to the next step in the automotive drivetrain evolution.

We can't go straight from gas to full electric because of range anxiety. It just does not work for everyone, so it is not a solution.

The Volt can be driven on full EV if needed, but the gas engine can keep that electric motor singing as long as you need it to. This is the next step until we are ready for full electric (assuming electric is the way we go, and we don't end up going to natural gas or something like that first).

Volt is getting to be more and more affordable over time, but it still needs to come down even further. If it can do that, it would be a success.

[Splitter]

Tesla just installed some new superchargers in Sagamore Beach on Cape so this excites me more

[el ess A]

When they stop making gasoline, then I'll consider an electric vehicle. Until then, the only electric vehicle I'm interested in is a golf cart.

A lot of money for what I consider a commuter car. I couldn't trust that 250 miles out I could find a "fueling station" anyway.

And electric costs will be going up and up...someone's administration that's choking coal is seeing to that.

Efficiency isn't just about the motor. It's about the logistics in charging time, range, and going out of your way to find a super station. As the current map exists, I cannot travel to see family in that car unless I take a couple of days to charge up the batteries. Deal breaker right there.

I can buy a $45K Camaro. And 30K in gas, that's almost 9,000 gallons of gas. And at a reasonable 20 miles per gallon, that's 179,000 miles of driving it. Ok, make it 125,000 miles since I'll have to do oil changes/spark plugs maybe. Oh, and I can go darn near anywhere I want to.

And at the rate I'm going, based on the 2010's current mileage....I would need to keep the car approximately 40+ years to break even, considering a reasonable amount of inflation, etc. And that's BEFORE I plugged in the Tesla for the first time.

So as pointed out, get a car that can do all that for 20-30K, THEN it might be worthwhile. Until then, my unimpressed opinion of Tesla remains in the "has potential but not worth it yet" category.

[Vick415]

Interesting what a marketing wize can do and successfully done. Same goes for Steve Jobs

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Number 3

You know all they did was add a second motor right?

The increased efficiency is a result of that.

Nothing new here. In fact it's actually a lighter way to get AWD. You eliminate the need for a transfer case and associated drive shafts. Which how the weight was kept low.

Cool, like I said, but adding a second motor is not a game changer. Nor is a 10% increase in range. The Volt gained 10% with it's new battery a few years ago and no one was calling that a game changer either.................because it isn't.

This is very cool. Just not a unique or new idea to add a second electric motor. There have been prototypes over the years with one motor per wheel.

Originally Posted by Number 3

What you are saying is taking someone else's idea and implementing it makes you the innovator. Well then Huzzah for Toyota. That is what they have done for 50 years or more.

You guys are just buying the hype. And that's ok, that's how marketing works.

I have a friend who I would call an Apple Sheeple. This is the exact argument he makes against Samsung and how samsung sucks, and is useless compared to the almighty apple....yet he loves him some Tesla and what they are doing lol.

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

I still think the Volt is the closest and best thing we've got to the next step in the automotive drivetrain evolution.

We can't go straight from gas to full electric because of range anxiety. It just does not work for everyone, so it is not a solution.

The Volt can be driven on full EV if needed, but the gas engine can keep that electric motor singing as long as you need it to. This is the next step until we are ready for full electric (assuming electric is the way we go, and we don't end up going to natural gas or something like that first).

Volt is getting to be more and more affordable over time, but it still needs to come down even further. If it can do that, it would be a success.

Maybe, but here is the main problem with the Volt. Its ugly, there is nothing attractive about it, it looks like an econo box, economy friendly car (and that IMO is the problem that the Caddy version has, and the nissan leaf has). That IMO is part of the reason Tesla is so successful. The cars look good, they perform good. I really think that is a big reason why they are successful

[SeaCompiler]

If I had to speculate, I bet N. Tesla would not like having his truly genius name associated with something so un - innovative just for marketing.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Maybe, but here is the main problem with the Volt. Its ugly, there is nothing attractive about it, it looks like an econo box, economy friendly car (and that IMO is the problem that the Caddy version has, and the nissan leaf has). That IMO is part of the reason Tesla is so successful. The cars look good, they perform good. I really think that is a big reason why they are successful

IMO the main problem with the Volt is its $34,170 base MSRP. The federal tax incentive of $0 to $7,500 is needed to make it interesting.

Tesla isn't making a profit so its hard to consider it a success. Great company story though

[trademaster]

Originally Posted by Number 3

What you are saying is taking someone else's idea and implementing it makes you the innovator. Well then Huzzah for Toyota. That is what they have done for 50 years or more.

You guys are just buying the hype. And that's ok, that's how marketing works.

When did I say anything about innovation? I gave two clear examples of execution and application being paramount over technical innovation. The result is what matters. They took the already popular Model S, gave it way more power, greater range/efficiency, and AWD and the price barely increased.

This thing outguns a CTS-V, can be all weather driven, is fully electric and costs roughly the same, plus it has some wild tech and the potential future developments from the Tesla API. You are kidding yourself if you don't think that is significant. They didn't reinvent the wheel, they dropped a bomb on the luxo-performance market. They're making waves and showing that electric cars can compete and then some in markets other than grocery getting snore-factories.