[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Normagene

From listening to the news, I've never heard them say that the steering locks, only that the power steering, power brakes, and airbags systems shut off as well as the engine.

I know people just want to make it sound much worse than it is. I have warned people many times about having so much on their key rings. More about wearing out the lock cylinder and the key itself than shutting the car off.

[PlainEnvelopes]

Originally Posted by Normagene

From listening to the news, I've never heard them say that the steering locks, only that the power steering, power brakes, and airbags systems shut off as well as the engine.

You will loose power steering and to some people that may seem like it locked.

In my opinion people need to remember that a car can act up at anytime with or without a recall and you just have to have the ability to work with what you have and think quickly.


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[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

I know people just want to make it sound much worse than it is. I have warned people many times about having so much on their key rings. More about wearing out the lock cylinder and the key itself than shutting the car off.

I think we can all agree that we've encountered a few people with too much crap on their keys. They have no idea of the damage they could be doing to that key assembly, and they're more likely to blame GM than their janitor-looking key ring.

[PlainEnvelopes]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

I think we can all agree that we've encountered a few people with too much crap on their keys. They have no idea of the damage they could be doing to that key assembly, and they're more likely to blame GM than their janitor-looking key ring.

That is the direction society goes, blame it on someone else.


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[AZCamaroFan]

that is the interesting part. when you consider how many of these cars are on the road and how many actual crashes it has caused, I wonder how many keys they had on their ring.

[camaro-dreamer]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

that is the interesting part. when you consider how many of these cars are on the road and how many actual crashes it has caused.

Actually, we are seeing too many defects for a Six Sigma process.

[AZCamaroFan]

it's definitely unacceptable and incomprehensible that they wouldn't just recall them to begin with. businesses just never seem to learn.

[Ringo64]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

it's definitely unacceptable and incomprehensible that they wouldn't just recall them to begin with. businesses just never seem to learn.

That's the sole part of this that I really just don't understand. As an SE, I've seen it all the time that we're under the crunch to get a product out, we discover a bug but it only happens in a very unique way that the normal user wouldn't encounter. Even if it shuts down the software with losing all users saved data, we still release but a little while later we release a patch for it and certainly fix it before the next version release.

I can somewhat see this in this case but you send out a recall or a halt on sales till you can fix the problem and certainly don't use it on other models or the following model year but this is assuming they caught it in the car's first production/development.

[LOWDOWN]

A $.90 extra cost replacement, at source (as per Delphi), times a couple million units, manufactured, now sounds like small potatoes...

If Toyota's fine, alone, of $1.2 BILLION is replicated and added to the p.r. fiasco and eventual co$t$ of recalling and repairing ALL those vehicles still on the road, that $.90/unit now seems like one helluva bargain...

[Ringo64]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

A $.90 extra cost replacement, at source (as per Delphi), times a couple million units, manufactured, now sounds like small potatoes...

If Toyota's fine, alone, of $1.2 BILLION is replicated and added to the p.r. fiasco and eventual co$t$ of recalling and repairing ALL those vehicles still on the road, that $.90/unit now seems like one helluva bargain...

It was $.90 more than the current part and was just for the part, factor in getting the ALL the cars back and man hours. You're looking at quite a bit. THOUGH definitely less than having to do it all now, deal with the law suites and damaged reputation.

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[LOWDOWN]

The $.90 quote was extra...to REPLACE the previously spec'd part and to be SUBSTITUED for OEM usage on the line during assembly, which would have negated a recall on those subsequently assembled vehicles.

NOW, they'll have to recall many more and PAY to, at least, have them inspected. And each inspection will co$t a damn sight more than $.90.

Penny wi$e, and Pound foolish...

[Chevy_cowboy]

I guess the question is how bulletproof to engineer something like an ignition? Apparently most people think they should be built tough enough to handle a bunch of swinging keys on a bumpy road... but to what end? Is 15 keys enough, or will the guy who has his ignition turn off with 18 keys on it still call a lawyer? How about 30 keys? I'm sure there's security personnel that carry that many. What if I'm a bricklayer and I want to hang a brick from my keychain? Is it still all the manufacturers fault when the switch fails? Yeah thats taking it to the extremes, but there's probably lawyers who'd attempt it.

Just seems silly to have to over engineer a part simply for a small segment of society that will abuse it, but thats the world we live in these days.

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by Chevy_cowboy

Just seems silly to have to over engineer a part simply for a small segment of society that will abuse it, but thats the world we live in these days.

And this time the part was seriously UNDER engineered. They knew it before the vehicles even went into production and they knowingly made the decision to go forward with a part they fully knew DID NOT MEET SPECIFICATIONS.

The Lawyers will be eating GM money for Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner for years and years.

[camaro-dreamer]

Originally Posted by Chevy_cowboy

I guess the question is how bulletproof to engineer something like an ignition? Apparently most people think they should be built tough enough to handle a bunch of swinging keys on a bumpy road... but to what end? Is 15 keys enough, or will the guy who has his ignition turn off with 18 keys on it still call a lawyer? How about 30 keys? I'm sure there's security personnel that carry that many. What if I'm a bricklayer and I want to hang a brick from my keychain? Is it still all the manufacturers fault when the switch fails? Yeah thats taking it to the extremes, but there's probably lawyers who'd attempt it.

Just seems silly to have to over engineer a part simply for a small segment of society that will abuse it, but thats the world we live in these days.

No, this was a real problem. GM knew about it at the time of launch for the Cobalt.

"I wanted to close the loop on the Electrical SMT’s attempt to bring a new ignition switch design to the Delta/Kappa vehicles for MY 08. As the VSE for the Cobalt launch I was very aware of an Issue with “inadvertent ignition offs” due to the low mounted ignition switch In the steering column and the low efforts required to rotate the ignition.

A new, more robust, increased effort design is currently being implemented on the GMT191 program for MY 07. My intention was to bring this part number common design to the Delta/Kappa vehicles for MY08. I attended an X Vapir with the Delta team-to--review the pros/cons of this change. The con of the change is that the piece cost of the ignition switch went up around $0.90 and would require $400K in tooling to add the almost 500K in volume.

At the X Vapir my team was challenged to offset the piece cost with warranty savings and/or reduced PC/Inv. I worked through Purchasing with Stoneridge Pollak to gain the reductions. Stoneridge Pollak was unwilling to budge on their PC/Inv. The warranty offset for the new switch is in the $0.10-0.15 range

It was felt by the Delta team that the revision of the slot in the ignition key to a hole would significantly reduce the inadvertent offs and make any additional changes unnecessary.

Consequently, the ignition switch for the Deltas and Kappas will remain the carryover single detent switch until the piece cost hit can be eliminated or significantly reduced My plan is to resource this switch design for MY 09 and make it available for the Deltas, Kappas, and 19X families.

John R. Hendler"