[hightower]

DON'T GAF!!!


It's a pissing contest, between everyone..... you, me, them. It's all a waste of time. They gripe about it, you gripe about them griping. Like one big b*tchfest....

[GTAHVIT]

Here is the beautiful part of this thread.

Mustang guys have every damn right in the world to piss all over the camaro on their forum.

Camaro guys have every damn right to favor the Camaro and take shots at the Mustang on our forum.

On THIS forum... You won't last long if you are here to try and balance the focus to deliver equal treatment to the Mustang...

We tolerate quite a bit from Camaro bashers/Mustang fans... But you won't last long here if that is the only reason you are here...

FWIW.

[Long Carbine]

Originally Posted by Number 3

You do know it's not that simple right?

Traction will be a huge equalizer and if you don't have the hardware to put to the pavement, you can have 1,000 hp and just sit there and melt tires. That's how my GN was in 87 with 215s. Could turn an intersection white with tire smoke.

Not saying the Mustang isn't going to be an awesome car, I believe it will be. But I also know that every Corvette is traction limited. It's why the 'ring times went down so much with the new cup tires.

Essentially you are correct, but higher HP and Lower mass doesn't always mean the win.

But in the end we will be having the discussion on what is more important, 1/4 time or lap time. For some people it will always be straight line and for others it will be the balanced perforamance required to go around the track. For me, 1/4 time is simply a measure of HP and traction. Doesn't require a lot of engineering to do that. But to get a car to turn and brake and still ride nice on a weekend trip??? That's a tougher nut to crack.

And for some (me included) what you can do to the engine aftermarket is meaning less. This site has had many "discussions" on that topic. Very few people are going to go out and modify their cars. It just seems that way because a higher percentage of people that care to go on sites like this one do.

So the fact you can get a Mustang to 700 HP means nothing to me. That's HP that will only matter if you go to the track every weekend and it's your personal passion and hobby. For me, I want to pack it up and drive it to Florida and I'm not going to do that in a 700 RWHP Mustang or Camaro for that matter.

That is why I could care less what a car does on street tires and/or the times magazines run. Put slicks on them to see what the real times a car can run. The 2013 GT500 should be able to pull low 1.50 sixty footers. It has the power to be a 10 second car.

My GT500 has a 2.8 Kenne Bell with LT headers tuned by Jon Lund and I get 23.5 mpg on the highway. It makes a little under 700 rwhp. It rides like a ***** cat.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by fox

I believe the reason why a larger than normal about of car enthusiasts on other car forums ridicule and do not respect this website is because moderators censor fact here. I do not mean subjective opinions, but objective fact.

I do not expect you to see this forest because of all the trees though.

FWIW.

It's sad but true....

But so is what he said...

[mlee]

Originally Posted by fox

I believe the reason why a larger than normal about of car enthusiasts on other car forums ridicule and do not respect this website is because moderators censor fact here. I do not mean subjective opinions, but objective fact.

I do not expect you to see this forest because of all the trees though.

FWIW.

Then why the hell do you keep coming back...

Damn.... all we have to say is Mustang and you come running every time...

:troll:

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by fox

I believe the reason why a larger than normal about of car enthusiasts on other car forums ridicule and do not respect this website is because moderators censor fact here. I do not mean subjective opinions, but objective fact.

I do not expect you to see this forest because of all the trees though.

FWIW.

I believe the larger than normal amount of car enthusiasts on other forums is much smaller than you think.

Nevertheless...Nobody is forcing people to visit this website. We do what we do to maintain a clean and inviting environment for CAMARO enthusiasts to enjoy and want to take part in...but we can't please 100% of people. It's a sad fact we'll have to live with.

Thank you for your input.



Back on topic....and what a silly topic it is....

I was watching TopGear BBC today...and Jeremy Clarkson started going on about how much he hated this and that and the other thing about some car he was driving. I forgot which it was. They went back inside the studio and Richard Hammond asked him if it was really that bad...and he said: "Yes....but I LOVE it. This car has that 'X-factor' we're always talking about on this show. It's simply marvelous." ...or something like that.

It struck me rather hard - because if we apply this thought to the Mustang / Camaro battle...you begin to see WHY there are Mustang people and Camaro people...and why they can't agree with each other on even the most simple things.

Everyone has their OWN 'X-factor'. It is not something that can be marketed. Not something that can be bought...you may argue about the performance advantages of one over the other until the sun goes down...but it doesn't matter...because the performance is NOT what most of us bought our cars for. It's that 'x-factor'...we bought the car that spoke to us, the one that made us feel that special something deep inside.

We LOVE our cars for reasons that can't be argued - so we choose to argue over performance and this and that...because it's easier.

Lighten up, everyone. ZL1 and GT500 are different cars, imho...two very different answers to the same question - but it doesn't matter, because they are both amazing vehicles. And most other car companies can only DREAM of offering a vehicle with the levels of performance that these two offer.

Log off and drive, will ya?

[69Z/28Camaro]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Back on topic....and what a silly topic it is....

I was watching TopGear BBC today...and Jeremy Clarkson started going on about how much he hated this and that and the other thing about some car he was driving. I forgot which it was. They went back inside the studio and Richard Hammond asked him if it was really that bad...and he said: "Yes....but I LOVE it. This car has that 'X-factor' we're always talking about on this show. It's simply marvelous." ...or something like that.

It struck me rather hard - because if we apply this thought to the Mustang / Camaro battle...you begin to see WHY there are Mustang people and Camaro people...and why they can't agree with each other on even the most simple things.

Everyone has their OWN 'X-factor'. It is not something that can be marketed. Not something that can be bought...you may argue about the performance advantages of one over the other until the sun goes down...but it doesn't matter...because the performance is NOT what most of us bought our cars for. It's that 'x-factor'...we bought the car that spoke to us, the one that made us feel that special something deep inside.

We LOVE our cars for reasons that can't be argued - so we choose to argue over performance and this and that...because it's easier.

Lighten up, everyone. ZL1 and GT500 are different cars, imho...two very different answers to the same question - but it doesn't matter, because they are both amazing vehicles. And most other car companies can only DREAM of offering a vehicle with the levels of performance that these two offer.

Log off and drive, will ya?

Wow, a great way to say it Dragoneye. My friend and i give each other crap all the time because I'm a Camaro guy and he's a Mustang guy, but like you said, we like them for our own reasons. I did think it was kind of dumb they used an engine bay shot from a test car though, just saying haha.

[sasquash1984]

People should compare the zr1 vette vs gt500, I however have always been loyal to chevy all I have ever owned but no way am I paying $60,000 for a camaro I have right at $45,000 in my ss before I put a lsa blower on it then I'm done. Now if I had $60,000 I would get a shelby for a daily driver and my camaro for track.

[2010-1SS-IBM]

Originally Posted by fox

I believe the reason why a larger than normal about of car enthusiasts on other car forums ridicule and do not respect this website is because moderators censor fact here. I do not mean subjective opinions, but objective fact.

I do not expect you to see this forest because of all the trees though.

FWIW.

Hate to tell you this, but there are facts to back up any opinion. And most of the "car enthusiasts" that were here only cared about the facts that make the Camaro look bad. And they tried to make the Camaro look bad every chance they got.

Here's a fact you guys never seem to get: this is a website for Camaro enthusiasts. If you don't like the Camaro, you shouldn't be here.

[ffrcobra_65]

.....and then there are those caught in the middle..the true car enthusiasts who love Camaros and Mustangs and most things in between, who often can't just sit idly by and not say anything to correct misinformation and ignorance. For instance, ignorants keep ridiculing the SRA on the Mustangs as old antiquated pos but it works and it works well enough to beat the SS (GM has had 7+ years to design a lighter Camaro with better roadcourse suspension, newer engine, and came up short (ZL1 different story on suspension). GM's old pushrod engine works well so I understand, no reason to stop using it, the same way Ford thinks about the SRA). On the other hand, Ford is really behind the times with the Mustang suspension and chassis. While it still works and works very very well, it is only one Camaro redesign year away from becoming a total dinosaur.
Misinformation about the Mustangs seems to be encouraged and applauded but truth seem to get censored or deleted. Just my observation as well.

[BigHemiSrt]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

.....and then there are those caught in the middle..the true car enthusiasts who love Camaros and Mustangs and most things in between, who often can't just sit idly by and not say anything to correct misinformation and ignorance. For instance, ignorants keep ridiculing the SRA on the Mustangs as old antiquated pos but it works and it works well enough to beat the SS (GM has had 7+ years to design a lighter Camaro with better roadcourse suspension, newer engine, and came up short (ZL1 different story on suspension). GM's old pushrod engine works well so I understand, no reason to stop using it, the same way Ford thinks about the SRA). On the other hand, Ford is really behind the times with the Mustang suspension and chassis. While it still works and works very very well, it is only one Camaro redesign year away from becoming a total dinosaur.
Misinformation about the Mustangs seems to be encouraged and applauded but truth seem to get censored or deleted. Just my observation as well.

Very well put. I fall in the in between section. I just like cars, period. With that said every car has its high and low points. I will gladly point out ignorant misinformation with facts every chance i get.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

.....and then there are those caught in the middle..the true car enthusiasts who love Camaros and Mustangs and most things in between, who often can't just sit idly by and not say anything to correct misinformation and ignorance. For instance, ignorants keep ridiculing the SRA on the Mustangs as old antiquated pos but it works and it works well enough to beat the SS (GM has had 7+ years to design a lighter Camaro with better roadcourse suspension, newer engine, and came up short (ZL1 different story on suspension). GM's old pushrod engine works well so I understand, no reason to stop using it, the same way Ford thinks about the SRA). On the other hand, Ford is really behind the times with the Mustang suspension and chassis. While it still works and works very very well, it is only one Camaro redesign year away from becoming a total dinosaur.
Misinformation about the Mustangs seems to be encouraged and applauded but truth seem to get censored or deleted. Just my observation as well.

If I were you -- I'd have just left it at this:

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

.....and then there are those caught in the middle..the true car enthusiasts who love Camaros and Mustangs and most things in between.

Nobody needs "truth police" around here. Especially about Mustangs on a Camaro website. I'm sorry - but as strongly as I stand by what I said above, and will for as many times as it comes up....some people MUST realize this "fact":

We are a Camaro community...we poke fun of the Mustang as we're told to in the Camaro commandments...we don't care if we're 100% correct or not. We're not stupid, or "ignorant"...we just don't care. Just as Mustang enthusiasts aren't always on the ball when talking about the Camaro...because they don't care. This is not a bad thing: it's to be expected. Let it go.

[garcmol]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

If I were you -- I'd have just left it at this:



Nobody needs "truth police" around here. Especially about Mustangs on a Camaro website. I'm sorry - but as strongly as I stand by what I said above, and will for as many times as it comes up....some people MUST realize this "fact":

We are a Camaro community...we poke fun of the Mustang as we're told to in the Camaro commandments...we don't care if we're 100% correct or not. We're not stupid, or "ignorant"...we just don't care. Just as Mustang enthusiasts aren't always on the ball when talking about the Camaro...because they don't care. This is not a bad thing: it's to be expected. Let it go.

Bravo!

This is our idea of a following;

546 Drivers 1007 Spectators

And the Fest has always welcomed Challengers and Mustangs to the venue as well as any generation of Camaro. So we're not 1000% accurate. WGAS! We come here to talk Camaro, thus the name. Love the Mustang, but don't have time or desire to learn every nut and bolt. Same with the Charger and Challenger.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by garcmol

Bravo!

This is our idea of a following;

546 Drivers 1007 Spectators

Truly Impressive. Easily Double the number of final registrations for last year, I think...4 months early.