[Long Carbine]

Originally Posted by Overflow

Ford fanboys crack me up. They always use the "wait til next year!" card. First, they were saying how we need to just wait til next year for the 5.0, and now, we have to wait til next year for the 2013 Stang?

Um, not since June of 2002 when the 2003 Cobras hit the street. Ford has had GM covered in pony cars since.

2003/2004 Cobra > F-Bodies (no replacement for displacement, right)

5.0 > SS (5.0 makes the same rwhp and weighs less)

2011/2012 GT500 = ZL1 (GT500 weighs 300 pounds less makes up 30 HP difference)

2013 GT500 > ZL1

[Long Carbine]

Originally Posted by Overflow

I give Ford credit. They're giving GM a heck of a fight with the GT500.

You have that backwards.

It just gets on my nerves when whenever the Camaro steps ahead, the Mustang guys ignore it and say wait til the 5.0 or GT500.

Steps ahead how? Do you have any numbers to back that up. Some think the ZL1 may be fsater on a road course but we do know based on the law of physics that a 3900 pound car with 650 HP will beat a car weighing 300 pounds more with 70 less HP on a drag strip. Keep in mind eye witnesses observed a 2013 GT500 for a HRM article on a chassis dyno that made the equivalent of 670 HP at the crank when they let off at 6300 RPM. The HP curve for a 32V engine is steep. Some say the 2013 may make 700 HP when taken to redline at 7200 rpm. My 2003 made 360 rwhp SAE. That is 425 at the crank to Ford's rated HP for the 2003 Cobra of 390. The Ford GT dyno'd 550 at the tire and was rated 550 at the crank.

However, I'll give Ford the credit it deserves, it did a nice job with defeating the 2013 ZL1 HP wise.

Somehow me thinks you are going to be disappointed.

[BigHemiSrt]

Originally Posted by Long Carbine

Those are the ones you need to fear because a lot of them are twin screwed with 18-20 pounds of boost.

Now this man is talking with some sense.

I was on youtube and ran across a road and track video where they put a ctsv coupe against the 550hp shelby. The ctsv did beat it but only cause it was a auto vs the shelbys stick and super crappy driver. It was so obvious in the video that he sucked by the way the car was jerkin all over the place. This is the thing tho. The Shelby trapped more MPH. I wanna say almost 3 more mph.

Now this is pretty close to a ZL1 vs Shelby test. They both share the same engine. Both weigh about the same. Im assuming they both use the same auto. Only diff is the ZL1 makes 24 more hp. That isnt gonna make that much of a difference.

So im saying the current Shelby and ZL1 is pretty much dead nutts even in a drag race. Now imagine a 100 shot of nitrous on top of the current Shelby and thats the whoopin the next one will put on the ZL1.

Btw the ctsv ran a 12.3 in the test. Which is both faster and slower than what the ZL1 has been tested at.

Just some food for thought.

[BigHemiSrt]

Originally Posted by Long Carbine

You have that backwards.

lol check out post #61.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Overflow

Ford fanboys crack me up. They always use the "wait til next year!" card. First, they were saying how we need to just wait til next year for the 5.0, and now, we have to wait til next year for the 2013 Stang?

no need to wait until next year, the 13 GT500 will be hitting the streets VERY soon, probably not a month after the ZL1 finally hits the streets.

[scrming]

Originally Posted by BigHemiSrt

Id have to say its the opposite. GM is puttin up a decent fight to Ford by coming out with the ZL1. The Camaro doesnt run this segmant (performance wise). The Mustang has never left. The Mustang has had a supercharged model since 03 back when you couldnt even buy a new V6 Camaro much less and supercharged one to answer Fords Cobra. No one should ever forget this is Fords show and Mopar/GM are trying to steal it.

Annual gathering of 2003-2009 Camaros..

[Stew]

Originally Posted by scrming

Annual gathering of 2003-2009 Camaros..

Oh no you did'unt!!!!!

[BigHemiSrt]

Wow!!! LMFAO!!!

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Long Carbine

Outdated? Um, no. You do know the GT500's are fully forged? You do know the ZL1 has hypereutectic pistons? A GT500 will take 20 psi all day long in nay heat. When ZL1 owners start adding boost to beat twin screwed GT500's with 20 psi you will see how outdated the GT500 engine is when the ZL1 is puking parts on the track after one of them cast pistons gives up.

Laws of physics, a 650 HP car weighing 3900 pounds will beat a car with 580 HP that weighs 4200 pounds.

There are rumors the 2013 GT500 may make 700 crank HP bone stock taken to redline on a chassis dyno.

You do know it's not that simple right?

Traction will be a huge equalizer and if you don't have the hardware to put to the pavement, you can have 1,000 hp and just sit there and melt tires. That's how my GN was in 87 with 215s. Could turn an intersection white with tire smoke.

Not saying the Mustang isn't going to be an awesome car, I believe it will be. But I also know that every Corvette is traction limited. It's why the 'ring times went down so much with the new cup tires.

Essentially you are correct, but higher HP and Lower mass doesn't always mean the win.

But in the end we will be having the discussion on what is more important, 1/4 time or lap time. For some people it will always be straight line and for others it will be the balanced perforamance required to go around the track. For me, 1/4 time is simply a measure of HP and traction. Doesn't require a lot of engineering to do that. But to get a car to turn and brake and still ride nice on a weekend trip??? That's a tougher nut to crack.

And for some (me included) what you can do to the engine aftermarket is meaning less. This site has had many "discussions" on that topic. Very few people are going to go out and modify their cars. It just seems that way because a higher percentage of people that care to go on sites like this one do.

So the fact you can get a Mustang to 700 HP means nothing to me. That's HP that will only matter if you go to the track every weekend and it's your personal passion and hobby. For me, I want to pack it up and drive it to Florida and I'm not going to do that in a 700 RWHP Mustang or Camaro for that matter.

[PQ]

Whoever that ZL1 guy is over on that board, shame on you. How could you stoop so low as to go on the other board to 'address' the problems you have with what they are saying.

Just like these idiot Mustang guys. The ones who come over here to 'defend' their car.

Can you guys be more gomer?

[Overflow]

Originally Posted by BigHemiSrt

Id have to say its the opposite. GM is puttin up a decent fight to Ford by coming out with the ZL1. The Camaro doesnt run this segmant (performance wise). The Mustang has never left. The Mustang has had a supercharged model since 03 back when you couldnt even buy a new V6 Camaro much less and supercharged one to answer Fords Cobra. No one should ever forget this is Fords show and Mopar/GM are trying to steal it.

While I do agree with you that this is in fact Ford's show since the Mustang came out first, I disagree with the statement that GM is "trying" to steal it. In my honest opinion, I believe GM has already stole part of it, not all of it, but part of it. I know sales don't determine the whole story, but just look at them. Quality and other issues aside, GM is smoking the Mustang in sales. I do agree however that Mopar is trying to get in on the race.

Originally Posted by Long Carbine

You have that backwards.



Steps ahead how? Do you have any numbers to back that up. Some think the ZL1 may be fsater on a road course but we do know based on the law of physics that a 3900 pound car with 650 HP will beat a car weighing 300 pounds more with 70 less HP on a drag strip. Keep in mind eye witnesses observed a 2013 GT500 for a HRM article on a chassis dyno that made the equivalent of 670 HP at the crank when they let off at 6300 RPM. The HP curve for a 32V engine is steep. Some say the 2013 may make 700 HP when taken to redline at 7200 rpm. My 2003 made 360 rwhp SAE. That is 425 at the crank to Ford's rated HP for the 2003 Cobra of 390. The Ford GT dyno'd 550 at the tire and was rated 550 at the crank.



Somehow me thinks you are going to be disappointed.

When the 2010 Camaro SS came out with 426 HP while the Mustang GT only had 315 horsepower. When the 2010 Camaro base engine came out it had while the Mustang V6 engine only had 210. When the 2012 Camaro ZL1''s HP is at 580 HP while the 2012 GT500 is only 550. Now with the 2013 ZL1, that's a different story.

I do agree with you that the ZL1 is a fat pig, and that without a doubt it will injure it's performance on the track.

Originally Posted by Stew

no need to wait until next year, the 13 GT500 will be hitting the streets VERY soon, probably not a month after the ZL1 finally hits the streets.

You are right there.

Originally Posted by scrming

Annual gathering of 2003-2009 Camaros..

Alright, I'll admit it. That's a good one.

[Overflow]

Originally Posted by PQ

Whoever that ZL1 guy is over on that board, shame on you. How could you stoop so low as to go on the other board to 'address' the problems you have with what they are saying.

Just like these idiot Mustang guys. The ones who come over here to 'defend' their car.

Can you guys be more gomer?

I didn't even see that guy til you said something.

[xXSilencerXx]

The engine bay on the SS is fugly too, hoses and all sorts of crap running everywhere. You shouldn't need an engine cover to pretty it up. My Trans Am doesn't have that problem and it's a LS motor.

In the end who cares? It's just an engine bay.

[Scrappy Doo]

Originally Posted by PQ

Whoever that ZL1 guy is over on that board, shame on you. How could you stoop so low as to go on the other board to 'address' the problems you have with what they are saying.

Just like these idiot Mustang guys. The ones who come over here to 'defend' their car.

Can you guys be more gomer?

+1,000.