[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Wondering

Correct,the Nurburgring will NOT be open this year for any testing by anybody. F1 has already pulled their race due to the poor racing surface and the last I heard the 'Ring was ~$400 mil in debt.

The government is in control of it now & at this time has no plans to reopen it.

No way!


Really???

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

You're right, they are having more and more difficulty *to an extent* to hook up on stock tires.

But, which would you rather pay 55K for?

A car that uses all of it's power and runs a low 12 with very little room for improvement, or a car that has so much more potential on a set of DRs, but can only manage a low 12 on the tires it came with.

I don't know about you, but I'd take the power that can't be totally utilized stock.

.....it's more than "to an extent" about hooking up on street tires, launches with PTM and TC are watered down to move the car from a dead start from the factory. And I was also talking bout factory designs, waranties, and then the subsequent need to move beyond them to utilize the full potential of the HP/TQ on tap. Sure, I like you are happy to see increases of horsepower. And I'm all in for the ZL1. By your comments my statements were misconstrewn by you, by your what would you rather have question. I stated my case that factory cars have reached the upper limits of usable horsepower. There are only so many sophisticated tricks modern technology in factory manufacturing can employ to harness power and deliver it with streetability. The Mustang will need more body strengthening tricks aftermarket to make it rigid and stable. Pedders will tell you that all day long. Adding HP to that platform only exasorbates the issue. New TC and LC wizardry engineered by Ford will help some, but not a ton. Both cars have their limitations and issues. My $54,990 plus gas guzzler, tags, taxes etc... is on GM...

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

But, which would you rather pay 55K for?

A car that uses all of it's power and runs a low 12 with very little room for improvement, or a car that has so much more potential on a set of DRs, but can only manage a low 12 on the tires it came with.

That's a straw man question as far as the ZL1 is concerned.

The ZL1 doesn't use all of its power in order to run a low 12. In fact, the ZL1's power must be limited to run a low 12 in stock form. The ZL1 will have plenty of potential for improvement with DRs (and other modifications), if one so desires.

The point that OldScool makes is that it's not just about pure engine horsepower anymore. These days it's about engineering a complete vehicle from front to back and top to bottom.

[Ron66Vette&10SS]

Originally Posted by actireman

The other interesting thing is, they don't think it will be much faster in the Quarter mile on stock tires due to size, and balance of the car. Very interesting.

Who exactly is "they"?

Originally Posted by htron50

3) The ZL1 is already at 12.0 1/4th on stock tires in less than desirable weather .......

Really?

So far the best time I've see in reviews so far is a 12.1 by Motor Trend. The "less than ideal" track conditions of "dusty & cool" were a 12.3 by Car & Driver. And I won't even mention the horrendous time of 12.6 in the test against the Grand Sport.....and don't forget the terrible conditions giving the even slower 12.9 against the GTR.. If you take the reviews so far the ZL1 averages out to a 12.4 or maybe even a 12.5 in the quarter. I think consistently getting below 12's in the quarter STOCK is a pretty big of a stretch.

Unfortunately I don't think getting below 12's in the quarter is going to be a problem at all for the '13 GT-500. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the goal for it will be consistently hitting mid 11's.

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

I think that someone is spreading misinformation. The Nurburging has not been closed. Here's a link to its 2012 events:

http://www.nuerburgring.de/en/events...ll-events.html

Originally Posted by Wondering

Correct,the Nurburgring will NOT be open this year for any testing by anybody. F1 has already pulled their race due to the poor racing surface and the last I heard the 'Ring was ~$400 mil in debt.

The government is in control of it now & at this time has no plans to reopen it.

Que?


http://www.nuerburgring.de/en/angebo...ing-teams.html

That link is specifically for "test days for racing teams" 2-3 April 2012.

I will actually be going this year too.

[el ess A]

A lot of cars run the ring, and even better than the ZL1, but I don't want them either. The GT500 is STILL a Mustang. It's still not sitting in my driveway no matter what.

I'm still estatic about, and totally respect, both the hi-po Mustang GTs/Cobras and Challenger SRT8s. The reason is that when the big dogs fight, the power-hungry consumer ends up winning, no matter WHICH banner you fly high. But regardless of where the ZL1 ends up with track times, The Camaro's the only car from that group that will end up in my garage.

Even if you weren't a fanboi of any of them and bought all 3, there's always going to be ONE that gets favored, no matter how much you love the other 2. It's already the best dressed for any occasion since it's the only one that wears a tie (bowtie).

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Ron66Vette&10SS

Who exactly is "they"?



Really?

So far the best time I've see in reviews so far is a 12.1 by Motor Trend. The "less than ideal" track conditions of "dusty & cool" were a 12.3 by Car & Driver. And I won't even mention the horrendous time of 12.6 in the test against the Grand Sport.....and don't forget the terrible conditions giving the even slower 12.9 against the GTR.. If you take the reviews so far the ZL1 averages out to a 12.4 or maybe even a 12.5 in the quarter. I think consistently getting below 12's in the quarter STOCK is a pretty big of a stretch.

Unfortunately I don't think getting below 12's in the quarter is going to be a problem at all for the '13 GT-500. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the goal for it will be consistently hitting mid 11's.

Consistent 12.1 (+/- .2) shouldn't be a problem for the ZL1. The keyword being consistent (and that goes doubly for automatic-equipped cars)...I don't know what the heck is wrong with the magazine reviews...I wonder if some of them even used the LC software...

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by Wondering

Correct,the Nurburgring will NOT be open this year for any testing by anybody. F1 has already pulled their race due to the poor racing surface and the last I heard the 'Ring was ~$400 mil in debt.

The government is in control of it now & at this time has no plans to reopen it.

The Nurburgring is not closed.

The regional German government owns the Nurburging, and for the past two years had leased the operating rights to a private company. The regional German government has terminated the lease with the private company, and wants to find new operators. As the search for new operators takes place the regional German government will take control of the track and fund all facility operations.

[porcupinekiller]

Unless the ZL1 and GT500 are run on the same day, back to back at the ring, any lap times comparing them are irrelevant. I'm sure we'll see some good States side track comparisons.

[2010-1SS-IBM]

Originally Posted by porcupinekiller

Unless the ZL1 and GT500 are run on the same day, back to back at the ring, any lap times comparing them are irrelevant. I'm sure we'll see some good States side track comparisons.

I don't understand this argument. I get "same conditions" argument, but it isn't required when they run the track as often as they want and post their best time.

[69NMYSS]

Originally Posted by Ron66Vette&10SS

Who exactly is "they"?



Really?

So far the best time I've see in reviews so far is a 12.1 by Motor Trend. The "less than ideal" track conditions of "dusty & cool" were a 12.3 by Car & Driver. And I won't even mention the horrendous time of 12.6 in the test against the Grand Sport.....and don't forget the terrible conditions giving the even slower 12.9 against the GTR.. If you take the reviews so far the ZL1 averages out to a 12.4 or maybe even a 12.5 in the quarter. I think consistently getting below 12's in the quarter STOCK is a pretty big of a stretch.

Unfortunately I don't think getting below 12's in the quarter is going to be a problem at all for the '13 GT-500. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the goal for it will be consistently hitting mid 11's.

The video below show 0-60 in 3.8 and 1/4 in under 12 in less than ideal condtions

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200497

[htron50]

Originally Posted by Ron66Vette&10SS

Who exactly is "they"?



Really?

So far the best time I've see in reviews so far is a 12.1 by Motor Trend. The "less than ideal" track conditions of "dusty & cool" were a 12.3 by Car & Driver. And I won't even mention the horrendous time of 12.6 in the test against the Grand Sport.....and don't forget the terrible conditions giving the even slower 12.9 against the GTR.. If you take the reviews so far the ZL1 averages out to a 12.4 or maybe even a 12.5 in the quarter. I think consistently getting below 12's in the quarter STOCK is a pretty big of a stretch.

Unfortunately I don't think getting below 12's in the quarter is going to be a problem at all for the '13 GT-500. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the goal for it will be consistently hitting mid 11's.

Look at the "PERFORMANCE" page in the ZL1 brochure. It says 12.0 for the auto right there! GM is tuned in more than various tests done "so far"...

http://www.chevrolet.com/assets/en/p..._eBrochure.pdf

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by actireman

I'm told it's gonna happen. They plan on going in April. They feel they can put down a number close to the ZL1. The ZL1 is wider and has more tire, The GT500 is lighter and more HP. I will get a call when it happens. I love it, theres nothing like a good pony war.
The other interesting thing is, they don't think it will be much faster in the Quarter mile on stock tires due to size, and balance of the car. Very interesting.

You sure you are not just trying to stir another pot? BTW, who is "they"? Size and balance? I think you are not aware that the new GT500 will finally come with Launch Control. It has been speculated that the new snake will do consistent mid 11's.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

You sure you are not just trying to stir another pot? BTW, who is "they"? Size and balance? I think you are not aware that the new GT500 will finally come with Launch Control. It has been speculated that the new snake will do consistent mid 11's.

My thoughts too