[FenwickHockey65]

The point is that at the end, this...



...was just as crappy as this...



And this...



...was no better than this...



And this...



...should have looked like this from the start...



Does it suck that Pontiac is gone? Yes it does. But we really aren't missing much.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Zabo

Why? When it'd compete with Camaro sales and cause the same issues of rebadging that doomed Pontiac?

How would it cause issues of rebadging? The Commodore should've come over as a Chevrolet from the beginning, if it did, we would still have it instead of having to wait for GM to prep the VE Series II or VF for the US in 2013. Plenty of folks who wanted RWD performance with a usable backseat ended up in Chargers because GM didn't have anything in the segment.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Zabo

GMC? Sierra 1500 and Silverado 1500?

What's the difference aside from trim and a front fascia?

Should the Duramax/Allison Sierra HD have been a Silverado?

I seriously don't see why you feel the need to rip into a thread about Pontiac where those that want to celebrate it are trying to do so.

Did you not read where I posted that the next-gen full size trucks are going to look pretty different? It'll be similar to what the current Terrain and Equinox are.

Celebrate the heritage. But Pontiac, towards the end, needs to also be remembered as what not to do with a brand.

[HeatherR]

RIP

I took the Solstice out just to get a cup of coffee today. Great weather for it too. Love the car, but would have bought it as a Chevy too...

I also had an '06 G6 GXP coupe with a manual (1 of the 1% they made) for a very long 18 months---I hated everything about that car!

Fen is right in the end there was nothing great with a Pontiac badge that couldn't be a Chevy (all over the world too).

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by LostInMoscow

I think there are still some of these around in various spots around the nation. Obviously, political correctness eradicated such classic stuff.
Attachment 177973
We'll miss you chief Pontiac!

Forgive my ignorance, but what vehicle does that amazing hood art belong to??

[CaniacFan]

First car I purchased with my own money was a '77 Firebird... Will never forget that car (even though I traded it for an '80 Z28).

It's a sad day.. I'll miss you Chief Pontiac.

[Camaro Lives On]

This hurts.... my first car was a Pontiac... SO very sad to see it all come to an end. RIP

[98_Camaro]

Originally Posted by canadian ss

Chevrolet had racing pedigree. He was a race car driver. That alone meant something to GM over Pontiac. If the people stopped talking about Pontiac and their over cladding body panels, and how the camaro was virtually the same car and all, it might still be here? Too many whiners in this world and unfortunately GM listened.
Also, corvette and camaro are chev and share from the same parts bin usually. Why would corvette share with Pontiac? Remember... Corvette has alot of ruling power at GM.
Remember the FIERO program? They were out-performing the vettes and corvette made sure the fiero program died. That was the start of the Pontiac ousting in IMO.

Actually, GM thought about bringing the Corvette to the Pontiac brand.

Look familiar? It only made it to pre-production though. GM realized they were shooting themselves in the foot with it.

[LostInMoscow]

Originally Posted by Brokinarrow

Forgive my ignorance, but what vehicle does that amazing hood art belong to??

It was from an early '50s sedan. I'm not sure which one. I'm old, but not that old.

[canadian ss]

Originally Posted by 98_Camaro

Actually, GM thought about bringing the Corvette to the Pontiac brand.

Look familiar? It only made it to pre-production though. GM realized they were shooting themselves in the foot with it.

That was back in the day. I was referring to late 80's. Corvette ran GM. Everyone bowed to Corvette at that time. Thats why corvette never gave the F-bodies the same spec engine. It was always de-tuned at that time. They were making sure that Corvette was KING. When the fiero started getting it right, Corvette (CHEV) screamed bloody murder and the GM top brass took note. Pontiac was never forgiven. Corvette was 5yrs ahead of their program and were already working on the C5 program and didn't want Pontiac to embarass them with a lighter and cheaper performance car.

[canadian ss]

Originally Posted by Zabo

And yet Trans Ams were always outrunning their Chevy counterparts out of the factory box even at the end of 2002. Even with the same engine, trans, chassis.. etc.

Can someone jog my memory as to what the answer was in 2002 to Pontiac's WS6 package?

Heck, even the Firehawks posted the faster/higher numbers out of the twins in 2002.

At least in some form they kept that mindset and brought it to the 5th gen. Splitting them up may have been why they sold so low.. but bringing the best of both worlds in F-body land..

MUSTANG SALES RAEP!

I don't see how the heavier T/As were outperforming the camaros? The WS6 package was just a beefy suspension package.ie. stabilizer bars. You don't need that for drag racing.
The Firehawk was SLP. No comparisson stock to stock.
I havn't seen a stock TA WS6 vs stock camaro ss win over a camaro at the track.
My 98 z28 was running 13.4 stock as I watched TAs doing 14.1 stock?

[nUcLeArEnVoY]

Originally Posted by canadian ss

I don't see how the heavier T/As were outperforming the camaros? The WS6 package was just a beefy suspension package.ie. stabilizer bars.

And Ram Air.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by nUcLeArEnVoY

And Cold Air.

not a whole lot of air truly gets 'rammed' into the engine via hoodscoops (or the front kidney shaped inlets like on my Grand Am, at least not at the speeds that cars tend to drive at. But they do provide a good source of cold air. That said, the single scoop on the hood of the 4th gen SS did essentially the same thing as the two on its Pontiac bretheren.

[brandotron]

Originally Posted by Zabo

And yet Trans Ams were always outrunning their Chevy counterparts out of the factory box even at the end of 2002. Even with the same engine, trans, chassis.. etc.

Can someone jog my memory as to what the answer was in 2002 to Pontiac's WS6 package?

Heck, even the Firehawks posted the faster/higher numbers out of the twins in 2002.

Check your sources. WS6's counterpart was the 2002 SS. Both had non-functional hood scoops. Firehawk's counterpart was the SLP SS.