[Sax1031]

I hate to tell you people but the majority of Camaro and Mustang owners don't give two shits about power or performance.

[meanmike]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Then why is everyone fighting like cats and dogs in this thread? Of course power is important, it primarily is the most important thing. That is not why the Camaro went on hiatus.

I know they quit making them because no one was buying them and if power was so important they would have bought them instead of Mustangs

Oh and we are fighting because we can

[Sax1031]

Additionally, Ford’s next big move will be weight reduction. Cars have become heavier in the last decade due to larger size, more safety equipment, and more amenities. Ford has committed to reducing vehicle weight by between 250 and 750 lbs per vehicle.

In a recent conversation we had with Doug Sparks and Dave Pericak of Team Mustang, they confirmed that cutting 200-300 lbs from the Mustang in the coming years is on the top of their wish-list. This is both to meet new efficiency requirements but to keep performance on the improvement curve. The challenge for them is to find new materials that weigh less without compromising quality and safety while at the same time keeping costs in line. They could make a carbon fiber Mustang body structure that‘s feather light, but the car would cost $250,000. They have their job cut out, best of luck to them.

http://www.themustangnews.com/conten...vances-coming/

If they can get another 300lbs off the mustang that thing would be pretty damn stout.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by Reeko

I would think that the LS3 has years of aftermarket develoment. So the above statement is incorrect.

U can take it back further than that since many of the same Aftermarket mods that worked on the LS1 and LS2, will work on the LS3. (Please not that I am not saying that they are exact fit)

The number ONE and number two Aftermarket mods on these engines are an Exhaust System for about $1400 and a CAI for about $300. $1700 and U are looking at about 70-80HP. Throw a tuner a $100 Bill and U get another bunch. I picked up 40HP with just a CAI and a quick tune on my LS3. I already had the NPP Exhaust. I pulled the Fuse, but later got the Mild2Wild Plug-In/Remote and decided to forgo the Corsa's or Billy Boats.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

I hate to tell you people but the majority of Camaro and Mustang owners don't give two shits about power or performance.

Originally Posted by meanmike

I know they quit making them because no one was buying them and if power was so important they would have bought them instead of Mustangs

Oh and we are fighting because we can

I should clarify. People who enter into these types of threads, power is important. I do realize we are in the minority. It wouldn't matter what the Camaro had under the hood, it had lost it's charisma. 93 to 2002 virtually the same car. BORING!!!!!!

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

I should clarify. People who enter into these types of threads, power is important. I do realize we are in the minority. It wouldn't matter what the Camaro had under the hood, it had lost it's charisma. 93 to 2002 virtually the same car. BORING!!!!!!

Yes on a website like this 99.9% of us care about performance.

In the real world that probably equals less than 5% of Mustang and Camaro buyers.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

Yes on a website like this 99.9% of us care about performance.

In the real world that probably equals less than 5% of Mustang and Camaro buyers.

Yeah. :(

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

Some of the crying about the 200+ lb weight difference, 20 inch wheels, lack of gearing, lack of track pack, etc... is sad.

These tests will never be "fair". The only thing you can go off is what you can get from the factory for the Stang and the SS.

I don't hear you guys saying the race isn't fair because the Chevy has 1.2 more liters.

Are U serious??? When comparing a OHV design to a OHC design, the Liters are not a viable way of discussion. The size of the OHV engine has to be larger because of the internal Cam.

Interesting enuff tho, if U look at the two engines fully dressed, the a Ford OHC V6 engine actually looks larger than the GM OHV V8 one. The LS3 is also lighter.

As an Example:

Ford Engines

3.5L V6 PFI
405 lbs

3.5L V6 EcoBoost
449 lbs

Mod V8s
525-550 lbs

6.2L V8
590 lbs

Numbers include turbos, not include intercoolers, which average about 20lbs more.. so the EB 3.5L weighs about 469lbs and puts out 365HP. For comparison... According to GM Performance Parts, an LS7 weighs 440 lbs and an LS3 weighs 415 lbs and puts out 505HP and 430HP respectively.

[Sax1031]

What?

The Ford DOHC motors are bigger than the OHV motors. Other than power-to-weight in a vehicle the physical size of the motor doesn't do anything to help it's performance.

And the DOHC 5.0 is around 420lbs, not 525-530.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

And in 2003 the mustang had 420-430hp. What is your point?

Ford improved the GTs even without the direct competition of a Camaro.

Ford starting offering a 500hp+ Mustang without the direct competition of the Camaro.

I will say with the Camaro coming back Ford started going a little more radical.

The Cobra was S/C'ed and for all intents moved to try and compete with the Vette with the Camaro/TA gone.

Ford started offering the 500HP Mustang which costs almost as much as My Vette and could handle it to save it's or your life.

[Sax1031]

Comparing a Mustang to a Vette is retarded.

And being supercharged in no way changes the fact that in 2003 you could have bought a mustang with 420-430hp.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

http://www.themustangnews.com/conten...vances-coming/

If they can get another 300lbs off the mustang that thing would be pretty damn stout.

And ZETA was only a temporary solution for getting the Camaro out. The next Camaro.. due in 2013 will be riding on Alpha Platform (Cadillac ATS) built of HI-Strength Steel and Aluminum.

Point is that all manufacturers will be looking at lighter solutions to the weight issue.

[meanmike]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

Comparing a Mustang to a Vette is retarded.

And being supercharged in no way changes the fact that in 2003 you could have bought a mustang with 420-430hp.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

Comparing a Mustang to a Vette is retarded.

And being supercharged in no way changes the fact that in 2003 you could have bought a mustang with 420-430hp.

The SNOB in me would never compare the Mustang to the Vette. But unfortunately for Mustang fans Ford decided that they would via PRICE. The GT500 comes in $2K under a Vette.