[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by tenargo57

I can't believe some people are seriously trying to suggest the Camaro doesn't have bad visibility. Just because you can get used to it doesn't change that, and just because other cars also have bad visibility doesn't magically improve the Camaro's. I'd have to question whether or not someone has a functioning brain and eyes capable of safely operating a car if they were to drive a Camaro back to back with something like a 911 or BMW 2 Series and suggest they have the same visibility.

The 2 series is a sedan and the 911 is ugly so your comparison is kind of pointless.

Safely operating a sports car with limited rearward visibility requires skill, not something you "get used to". If you don't want to put the effort into driving one of these wonderful cars properly, by all means, please don't.

[ZED SLED]

Originally Posted by JT6Speed

I will say this, the visibility changing lanes has never bothered me. If your mirrors are setup correctly, it's fine.

The small back window is my biggest gripe, and especially how close it lies to the top of the seats by the speakers. It's a bear to clean.

Spatula covered with a cleaning wipe. Just don't let the wife see you with it

[david_acm]

lol great idea. every time i look back there im reminded that it needs cleaning up badly

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

I also have a BMW 2 series and an Elantra N, visibility is so much better in both.

Camaro is not nearly as bad as many think though, and it's not bad for a sports car. The issue is it's intended to also be a daily driver and was even sold as rental cars. If you compare Camaro to regular cars, and especially small SUVs with a higher seating position, there is a real difference in visibility and interior useability. So if you want a sports car it's no big deal but compared with other typical daily driver choices, there's a big difference.

Cars have to sell, they cost a fortune to get on the market, truth is there may still be a Camaro if the car's usability wasn't so compromised by it's design simply because they'd appeal to a larger audience. I like the Camaro as a sports car, I like it less as a daily.

BINGO

Camaro excelled at being a performance vehicle, sub par at being a regular car especially compared to it's direct competitors.

[TheEnthusiast]

Being 6'3, I never had an issue with seeing out of sports / muscle cars. Just got to adjust the mirrors right. I mean when I stomped on the go pedal during my test drive I wasn't thinking about much else except "OMG THE TORQUE!" lol

Being how it is built around you like a bunker, I could see someone who is shorter having difficulty seeing out of it but I think the seat can be adjusted height wise to counter that.

[JT6Speed]

Originally Posted by ZED SLED

Spatula covered with a cleaning wipe. Just don't let the wife see you with it

Yeah you definitely need something to get back there. I should buy a cheap throwaway spatula and try it.

[CHASLT1]

Originally Posted by tenargo57

I can't believe some people are seriously trying to suggest the Camaro doesn't have bad visibility. Just because you can get used to it doesn't change that, and just because other cars also have bad visibility doesn't magically improve the Camaro's. I'd have to question whether or not someone has a functioning brain and eyes capable of safely operating a car if they were to drive a Camaro back to back with something like a 911 or BMW 2 Series and suggest they have the same visibility.

Never crossed my mind when i went from a C7 to my 2021 LT1 when i first drove it that i never did even think about looking out of it. No diff from the C7 in my book. But the C8 is another story.

[tenargo57]

Originally Posted by Alan47717

The 2 series is a sedan and the 911 is ugly so your comparison is kind of pointless.

Lmao what? Not only is the 2 Series a coupe, you didn't even attempt putting together a rational thought. This has to be a bot or literal child, right?

Originally Posted by CHASLT1

Never crossed my mind when i went from a C7 to my 2021 LT1 when i first drove it that i never did even think about looking out of it. No diff from the C7 in my book. But the C8 is another story.

Probably because it has terrible visibility too. The C8 being worse also doesn't improve the C7's.

[JamesNoBrakes]

People will not set their side mirrors correctly. It doesn't matter what you do, how many times you say it, etc. People simply won't do it. It's laziness and we don't enforce the majority of traffic rules or require any significant re-training/re-testing. This is what kills the car, if you set it up correctly, it works great, no problems, but people refuse to do this, they love snapping their neck left and right to look outside of windows behind the driver's head. The camaro makes some compromises for the performance, as most cars do. This is not the kind of car for the kind of lazy person described above...but that person is the majority of the population at this time.

I'm not just doing autocross, I'm winning and placing on podium regularly. I don't hit cones. Yes, there are issues, but humans are easily adaptable and it's worth it for the performance. This tradeoff isn't worth it for many people.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

People will not set their side mirrors correctly. It doesn't matter what you do, how many times you say it, etc. People simply won't do it. It's laziness and we don't enforce the majority of traffic rules or require any significant re-training/re-testing. This is what kills the car, if you set it up correctly, it works great, no problems, but people refuse to do this, they love snapping their neck left and right to look outside of windows behind the driver's head. The camaro makes some compromises for the performance, as most cars do. This is not the kind of car for the kind of lazy person described above...but that person is the majority of the population at this time.

I'm not just doing autocross, I'm winning and placing on podium regularly. I don't hit cones. Yes, there are issues, but humans are easily adaptable and it's worth it for the performance. This tradeoff isn't worth it for many people.

Well spoken. If it were possible, it'd be interesting to see the distribution of driving skills among those that love the Camaro and those that find visibility an issue, I bet the latter would be full of people on the left side of the bell curve.

Re "lazy persons", just to share a personal illustration, I learned to drive and first got my license in Europe, and I have to say driver education and test requirements were in a different league altogether:

• mandatory 20+ hours of driving school using modified instructor cars (with a duplicate set of pedals on the right)

• 10+ hours in the school's test course built to expose us to a number of maneuvers ("canyon" turns, hill start with handbrake, parking spots with various angles and challenges, different road surfaces etc.)

• mandatory night and inclement weather driving (I did mine in Jan and Feb in a northern climate, so snow driving included)

• 3-part road test:

• part 1 was a quick car knowledge check (to test awareness of components and controls, basic car physics),

• part 2 at the test course to demonstrate 3 randomly selected drills

• part 3 was 45-50 minutes of driving and parking in big city traffic, up to 9 minor faults and 0 major faults allowed

minor faults being things people routinely do every minute here such as not checking mirrors or parking too far from the curb, choosing the wrong gear or stalling (nearly all instructor cars were manual), major faults ranged from not using turn signals or even activating them too late to failing to yield all the way to running red lights or stop signs, these would obviously be instant fails

• up to 4 attempts to pass the whole road test; if someone failed 4 times, a 5th chance could be granted after psych evaluation, then if someone failed again, they were never allowed to have a driver's license in the country (seriously)

I understand such an old school level of requirements would be impractical in the US, but the current "drive out of the Walmart parking lot in your automatic, go around the block and park her back in the same spot, you're done" road test is a joke.

Something in the middle would be very much advisable, unless we want to say self-driving is around the corner and we don't care anymore.

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by tenargo57

Lmao what? Not only is the 2 Series a coupe, you didn't even attempt putting together a rational thought. This has to be a bot or literal child, right?

Probably because it has terrible visibility too. The C8 being worse also doesn't improve the C7's.

Yes, a bot that just had his 70th birthday. The 2 series is a high performance sedan, not a sports car. Learn to understand the distinction. The Blackwings will outperform a bunch of the world's sports cars, but they are still sedans.

[ItsChristianInHD]

Originally Posted by Number 3

LOL you can get golf clubs in the trunk of a C8 (and C7, C6 and C5) and obviously a Corvette, the only GM sports car has no rear seat an up to the C8 (which has a camera to provide a good rear view in the rear view mirror) had great rear visibility.

Camaro died because it was designed for a very small customer base, Gen5 Camaro buyers. And in that segment a lot of people were looking for a different car than the Gen6 was designed to be. Sad, yes, but GM knew what they did and in the end taphat was a mistake.

But hey! At least we get to watch the Mustang die when it has zero competition in the segment.

Revising this.

Mustang is doing quite well. Ford and a few friends of mine within Ford has mentioned repeatedly that they are struggling with supply chain issues. Especially for the very desired performance pack and dark horse cars. There’s also zero good incentives on Mustang7.

They are looking to expand the brand since no one is around to stop them.

[NovaSS4spdFan]

The ICE Mustang is the halo car for Ford. The F-150 the cash cow. I like Mustangs- bought new a 1982 GT and a 2008 Bullitt. If it weren't for the Vette, the Camaro would be by de facto GM's halo and soldiered on.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by ItsChristianInHD

Revising this.

Mustang is doing quite well. Ford and a few friends of mine within Ford has mentioned repeatedly that they are struggling with supply chain issues. Especially for the very desired performance pack and dark horse cars. There’s also zero good incentives on Mustang7.

They are looking to expand the brand since no one is around to stop them.

This part just isn’t true. I didn’t even search for 5 mins and I found multiple 2025 Mustang GT’s with a few thousand off msrp. Cars have gotten too expensive so there are deals or there now. Even found a dark horse for cheap. If I didn’t buy my Camaro a year and a half ago I’d probably have went and snagged that dark horse later today. Kinda wish I waited tbh. Camaro feels dated since they didn’t update it much after 2019.