[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by p47dman

Your link is for an OBD II scan tool.

It does a lot more than scan.

[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Yes. Midrange and above scan tools can command the ABS bleed activation procedure (starting the pump and opening/clsoing solenoids) via OBD-II.

https://www.foxwelldiag.com/blogs/ca...leed-scan-tool

Great link arpad!

To properly use the ABS bleed function, a pressure bleeder is necessary. Manual bleeding cannot keep up with the sequence.

[p47dman]

Well pedal soft and squishy. Ordered scan tool, thanks. Also guess they forgot to send me the memo on the bleeding order. For 50 years I have always done RR, LR, RF, LF. Any other little tid bits I should know? Thanks again.

[cdb95z28]

RR, LF, LR, RF is the correct Gen5 and 6 Camaro sequence.

When using the Motive bleeder, do not put the brake fluid inside the Motive bleeder. That makes for a messy scenario.....cleaning the Motive after every use is not worth potentially contaminating future bleeds with subpar fluid. Just keep topping off the master. You just have to watch your master cylinder level. Add fluid, attach Motive, bleed, release pressure from Motive, add more fluid, repeat. It's a little more time consuming to do it this way. Biggest thing of course is to not let the master run dry. Take your time, brakes are no place to rush.

Caliper change is a big opportunity to introduce air into the system. Beside obvious large amounts of air, I think some gets trapped around the piston seals within the caliper. The ABS bleed creates good high vibrations that also help to dislodge the air. When I had my Gen 5 SS 1LE, I would go out on the street and purposely and repeatedly engage the ABS heavily to disrupt any air, then I would go back and bleed. That street driving ABS cycling makes the pistons move at high frequency.

And it's worth noting as some have missed it, but the calipers have inside and outside bleeders.

I have lots of experience with flushing/bleeding the brakes on both the Gen5 and 6, and IMO, the Gen6 is a lot more difficult to get a perfect air-free pedal. Buy plenty of fluid. It may take time. If you are looking to track, high quality DOT4 is a must. You might have to do the ABS bleed multiple times. But the reward is an amazing responding and feeling brake pedal.

I'll post the GM info on the brake bleeding here sometime today.

[Abubaca]

I'll post the GM info on the brake bleeding here sometime today.

I'd be interested in that too, as I'm also doing a caliper change here this spring. Thanks!

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by p47dman

Well pedal soft and squishy. Ordered scan tool, thanks. Also guess they forgot to send me the memo on the bleeding order. For 50 years I have always done RR, LR, RF, LF. Any other little tid bits I should know? Thanks again.

Please report back. I was reading in another thread that the scan tool you bought no longer performs the correct sequence. If it performs the correct sequence still please let us know. Thank you.

[p47dman]

Thanks, already have the Bembro DOT 4 fluid. Will do on the scan tool bleeding order.

[p47dman]

Update. Last night bleeding with engine off, pedal firm and hard. Bleed RR, LR, RF, LF. Outer screw first, read on here do it that way. Started car, pedal was mush. Just now, neighbor came over and pumped pedal for me. Engine on. This time started RR, LF, LR, LF, inner screw first. Pedal now firm and hard. Have not test driven her yet.

[cdb95z28]

m6-lt1, I think you may have been talking to me on that.

So, the normal bleed is RR, LF, LR, RF. The ABS bleed procedure is a bit odd. I asked two buddys about this odd sequence, one a GM Alpha/C8 chassis integration engineer who himself has an SS 1LE and the other a well informed engineer, also a Gen6 owner who is here on the forums, and they both confirmed the GM ABS procedure is odd, but works when performed correctly.

Odd with the above mentioned Foxwell and it's the same process with another GM diagnostic tool I bought :

(https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09XV8VR35...fed_asin_title).

The second buddy I mentioned above confirmed his very expensive GM diagnostic tool did the ABS procedure exactly as my two Amazon bought tools.

So that being said, from looking at my notes, the ABS bleed sequence is LR, LF, RF, RR. IOW, just do exactly as the diagnostic tool says. Last summer I did this ABS bleed after not having done it for a while and my awesome brake pedal returned.

When the diagnostic tool does its thing, the ABS motor and solenoids will be active. They pulse about 5 cycles on some wheels, with varying intensity and they sound like they are activating a different wheel than you are to be working on.

Hook up a battery tender to your car also. The ABS motor/solenoids can run the battery down, you'll want to keep the electrical system happy during the procedure.

Best thing I can add also is to be patient. I am not happy with my car unless the brakes are perfect. I street and track drive my SS 1LE. Actually, I care more about the feel when on the street because the only thing I care about on the track is the quality of the fluid. For track, Castrol SRF, Brembo HTC64T, Endless 650 or Torque 700.



Here's some detailed info I posted in another thread:

Yes, you can either add the brake fluid to the Motive or not. IMHO, cleaning the Motive of all brake fluid is the larger chore. While this may be an extreme thought, I treat fresh brake fluid as something that should be pure. Since I track my car I put a lot of effort in maintaining the brake fluid integrity. Chemicals used to clean the Motive may not be compatible with brake fluid or the Motive. Motive recommends denatured alcohol.

That being said, either way is acceptable, use your best judgement in choosing either putting the fluid in the Motive or not.

In the latter case, you would have to diligently keep an eye on your master cylinder (MC) so you do not run it dry. To begin, fill the MC with fresh fluid. Bleed the RR but take note of how much you are bleeding out. Do a little bit but then check your MC level. Release the Motive pressure and add more to the MC. Yes, this process takes more time and requires you to be very mindful of the MC level. I do mine this way. Be patient, never rush. Otherwise, no matter the job, you will make mistakes. Having that second set of eyes is good to keep the level topped of.


Proper sequence on the Gen6 is not the typical "furthest to closest to the MC".
RR, LF, LR, RF is the correct service manual procedure. You may have to do the procedure multiple times to gain a rock hard pedal.

3 liters of SRF is a good amount, even if you do a complete system flush. But you'll find you can breeze thru that amount quickly if you are chasing air and a soft pedal. Versus my previously owned Gen5 SS 1LE, I found the Gen6 a little more temperamental with respect to eliminating air. My car actually had air in the RF caliper from the factory!

When opening up the brake system there's always a chance that air will make its way back further than intended. I mentioned the ABS solenoid bleed procedure. If by chance air makes it way to the ABS module, there are two ways to push it out. One is to use a scan tool that performs the procedure. A dealer can do this or you can buy a scan too for relatively low cost. Maybe about $100-140 for a Foxwell. The Foxwell does lots of other things beyond code reading.

Another way is without a scan tool. This method requires driving the car. Pick a location with no traffic and about a 25mph speed limit. Dry pavement. Go out and repeatedly and heavily engage the ABS. You may already have a sense what kind of pedal effort it takes to engage the ABS. If there is air in the ABS module, engaging the ABS will cycle the solenoids and push out the air. Sometimes the pedal gets even softer but you will still have adequate braking. I have done this and it works very well. After 3 or 4 times of ABS engagement, go back and bleed again. You should see more air and the pedal should become rock hard. Be mindful of your surroundings and level of traction. Don't do it with other cars around. Safety is paramount. The low speeds will allow enough energy to be attained to successfully engage the ABS yet not create a hazard to yourself or others. Again, use your best judgement. Stay in control.


Once complete, torque your bleeders to spec. On my SS 1LE, this is 13-15 lbs/ft. Then you'll want to clean out the bleeders. Bleeders seal at the bottom, using a taper against the caliper. Once closed, the bleeder has a column of brake fluid with in them. You must remove this trapped fluid otherwise it will:
-absorb moisture over time and corrode the bleeder and bleeder threads. When the fluid starts to corrode the threads, the resulting corrosion acts as a thread locker and this is a reason that bleeders may break the next time they are loosened.
-or, leak out over the caliper, possibly destroying the finish.
I use wooden Q-tips for firearm cleaning. Regular personal hygiene Q tips will also work. I cut of the cotton tip off and insert the wooden part into the bleeder. Since this will push out the trapped fluid. have a rag ready to absorb the fluid as it pushes out of the bleeder. Do this a couple times to remove the excess. I have also sprayed BraKleen into the closed bleeder. Wrap a rag around the red Brakleen tube and top of bleeder and gently and quickly spray. It will push out any residual fluid. Let dry before attaching the black bleed cap.




ABS UNIT BLEED PROCEDURE.pdf

ADHESIVES LUBRICANTS SEALERS.pdf

BRAKE SYSTEM FASTENER TORQUE SPECS.pdf

BRAKE HYDRAULIC SYSTEM OPERATION.pdf

BRAKE PRESSURE BLEEDING.pdf

BRAKE SYSTEM SPECIFICATIONS.pdf

BRAKE SYSTEM HYDRAULIC CAPACITY.pdf

BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER BENCH BLEEDING.pdf

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

m6-lt1, I think you may have been talking to me on that.

So, the normal bleed is RR, LF, LR, RF. The ABS bleed procedure is a bit odd. I asked two buddys about this odd sequence, one a GM Alpha/C8 chassis integration engineer who himself has an SS 1LE and the other a well informed engineer, also a Gen6 owner who is here on the forums, and they both confirmed the GM ABS procedure is odd, but works when performed correctly.

Odd with the above mentioned Foxwell and it's the same process with another GM diagnostic tool I bought :

(https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09XV8VR35...fed_asin_title).

The second buddy I mentioned above confirmed his very expensive GM diagnostic tool did the ABS procedure exactly as my two Amazon bought tools.

So that being said, from looking at my notes, the ABS bleed sequence is LR, LF, RF, RR. IOW, just do exactly as the diagnostic tool says. Last summer I did this ABS bleed after not having done it for a while and my awesome brake pedal returned.

When the diagnostic tool does its thing, the ABS motor and solenoids will be active. They pulse about 5 cycles on some wheels, with varying intensity and they sound like they are activating a different wheel than you are to be working on.

Hook up a battery tender to your car also. The ABS motor/solenoids can run the battery down, you'll want to keep the electrical system happy during the procedure.

Best thing I can add also is to be patient. I am not happy with my car unless the brakes are perfect. I street and track drive my SS 1LE. Actually, I care more about the feel when on the street because the only thing I care about on the track is the quality of the fluid. For track, Castrol SRF, Brembo HTC64T, Endless 650 or Torque 700.

Thank you. I’ll post a video below from one of the forum members on how to do the “dry” bleed for the motive.

Just to be clear, both of those devices do the correct sequence when bleeding the abs? I saw folks reporting that it had you do both rear wheels first for the foxwell.

Also just some general questions.

1) do you bleed all 4 calipers first with the motive and then do the abs in the same order?or are you doing everything at once?

2) when bleeding the abs do you still bleed from both bleeder screws or do you just need to do one?

3) when bleeding the abs will the tool stop pumping the abs module and give you time to depressurize the motive and add more fluid to the reservoir before it runs out? Something odd imo was happening at the 7:40 mark in this video.https://youtu.be/18vhMC--WE8?si=hlkGPUu8ff8fc61d
It might not be pumping the abs at that mark but it sounded like something was running which worries me about running out of fluid and depressurizing the motive. Could be nothing and that noise is normal when going between calipers.
This guy is not using the “dry” method so he doesn’t have to worry about letting the master cylinder run dry. You can also see that it tells him to go from the right rear to the left rear at the 8:55 mark which is incorrect. He’s using the foxwell nt630 which is why I’m concerned about purchasing this.ive seen other folks report the incorrect order as well and it seems like the device got updated at some point and the order messed up.

I do think someone told them to fix it so I’m curious if op’s foxwell that he ordered has the correct order.

Here is a video of the motive power bleeder for folks like me who will be doing it this way the first time. The user is doing this the “dry” way which means no fluid in the motive itself. https://youtu.be/8JToM81xOLI?si=AFbYtCq4ed-IpSyj

[p47dman]

Just came back from test drive. Pedal hard again. Brakes are excellent. I must have gotten lucky and did not get air into ABS solenoid.

[cdb95z28]

Answers in RED CAPS FOR EASY VIEWING, NOT YELLING, LOL

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Thank you. I’ll post a video below from one of the forum members on how to do the “dry” bleed for the motive.

Just to be clear, both of those devices do the correct sequence when bleeding the abs? YES I saw folks reporting that it had you do both rear wheels first for the foxwell. JUST DO WHAT THE DIAGNOSTIC TOOL SAYS TO DO.

Also just some general questions.

1) do you bleed all 4 calipers first with the motive and then do the abs in the same order? I HAVE DONE THAT. NORMAL BLEED FIRST , THEN ABS BLEED. EACH IN THE APPROPRIATE ORDER. YOU WILL USE MORE FLUID THIS WAY, THAT IS THE ONLY NEGATIVE. READ THE GM SERVICE MANUAL PDF FILE I POSTED EARLIER..or are you doing everything at once?

2) when bleeding the abs do you still bleed from both bleeder screws or do you just need to do one? BOTH

3) when bleeding the abs will the tool stop pumping the abs module and give you time to depressurize the motive and add more fluid to the reservoir before it runs out? YES, THE DIAGNOSTIC TOOL WILL PROMPT YOU TO HIT ENTER OR PROCEDE AT EACH WHEEL. THIS WILL GIVE YOU TIME TO KEEP THE MASTER FULL. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO OPEN THE BLEEDER FOR THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF TIME OF THE ABS SEQUENCE. I TYPICALLY JUST OPEN FOR A FEW SECONDS PER CYCLE. MAYBE I SHOULD KEEP THE BLEEDER OPEN MORE....I KINDA DO IT ON FEEL....DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH AIR I THINK I AM DEALING WITH. EXPERIENCE IS DICTATING ME HERE. USE YOUR BEST JUDGEMENT ON HOW MUCH YOU NEED TO OPEN THE BLEEDER. SURE, YOU COULD LEAVE THE BLEEDER OPEN THE ENTIRE WHEEL SEQUENCE, JUST DO NOT RUN THE MASTER DRY!!Something odd imo was happening at the 7:40 mark in this video.https://youtu.be/18vhMC--WE8?si=hlkGPUu8ff8fc61d NOTE THAT VIDEO IS A GEN5 CAMARO, BUT THE GEN6 IS SIMILAR IN THAT THERE WILL BE NOISES DURING THE ABS PROCEDURE. BUT I WILL SAY THE ABS MOTOR WILL STOP ON THE GEN6, THE FOXWELL WILL PROMPT YOU TO GO TO THE NEXT WHEEL. BASED ON THAT VIDEO, THERE ARE DIFFERENCES OF THE GEN 5 VS GEN6. I NEVER DID THE ABS BLEED WITH A DIAGNOSTIC TOOL ON MY GEN5.
It might not be pumping the abs at that mark but it sounded like something was running which worries me about running out of fluid and depressurizing the motive. YOU WILL ONLY PUSH FLUID OR RUN OUT OF FLUID IF YOU HAVE A BLEEDER OPEN. Could be nothing and that noise is normal when going between calipers.
This guy is not using the “dry” method so he doesn’t have to worry about letting the master cylinder run dry. YOU CAN FILL THE MOTIVE IF YOU CHOOSE. You can also see that it tells him to go from the right rear to the left rear at the 8:55 mark which is incorrect. AGAIN....IT'S A GEN5 ZETA PLATFORM PROCEDURE. He’s using the foxwell nt630 which is why I’m concerned about purchasing this.ive seen other folks report the incorrect order as well and it seems like the device got updated at some point and the order messed up. WHILE THE VIDEO GIVES A GOOD BASIC IDEA OF THE PROCEDURE, IT IS A GEN5....DIFFERENT PLATFORM. DON'T SIT ON IT TOO MUCH. THAT IS NOT HOW MY EXPERIENCES OF THE GEN 6 HAVE BEEN. JUST DO WHAT THE TOOL SAYS......I USED THE SAME TOOL ON MY SON'S '16 CRUZE, ABS BLEED WAS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. THE DIAGNOSTIC TOOLS ARE PROGRAMMED FOR EVERY VEHICLE PLATFORM IT SUPPORTS. THE GOOD ONES ARE NOT UNIVERSAL..

I do think someone told them to fix it so I’m curious if op’s foxwell that he ordered has the correct order.

Here is a video of the motive power bleeder for folks like me who will be doing it this way the first time. The user is doing this the “dry” way which means no fluid in the motive itself. https://youtu.be/8JToM81xOLI?si=AFbYtCq4ed-IpSyj GREAT VIDEO! PERFECT PROCEDURE ON HIS PART! MAKE EVERY MOVE A DELIBERATE STEP. THAT PRESSURE BLEEDER IS NICER THAN THE MOTIVE, IT'S GOT A RELIEF VALVE. DO NOT OPEN ANY PRESSURIZED PRESSURE BLEEDER UNTIL YOU DEPRESSURIZE! OTHERWISE IT WILL BLOW BRAKE FLUID EVERYWHERE. I ALSO USE A SYRINGE TO REMOVE VERY OLD FLUID FROM THE MASTER.

[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by p47dman

Just came back from test drive. Pedal hard again. Brakes are excellent. I must have gotten lucky and did not get air into ABS solenoid.

[cdb95z28]

Since this is what did you do to your Camaro today thread, lol, I've done alot of little things to mine. I need to participate more in this thread! First one is because of someone on this thread. Stitching Cover Alcantara steering wheel cover.






Hard to find GM 1LE floor mats: