[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by KamZL1

I think there is real paranoia about this subject. my 17 has 80k now, beating the piss out of it 0 issues. I have only ran mobil 1 supercar.

LOL, you think because it hasn't happened to you yet that it's just paranoia???

Have you seen this thread?

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=532479

[LT4Greg]

I have less than 30,000 miles on my 2017 and had no issues as of today. I let the engine warm up before driving it aggressively and when warmed up the idle is usually between 20 and 30 psi. I do keep a check on it when driving it though. And I do run 5W30 oil in mine. Keeping fingers crossed that the oil pump is okay and won’t fail.

[NicKey]

Greg, your oil pressure at idle, hot should be 32lbs give or take a couple of lbs. If you are seeing 20lbs (which GM says is OK) then you have an issue! The two main culprits are, oil is too thin or your pump has an issue.

Also GM upgraded their oil recomendation in 2018 to 0-40 Dexos 2. This is Corvette but same for ZL1. We follow the GM guide line for the ZR1 when tracking the ZL1.

[KamZL1]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

LOL, you think because it hasn't happened to you yet that it's just paranoia???

Have you seen this thread?

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=532479

No that's not what I'm thinking. Let me explain, I'm not trying to be condescending either.

I'm an engineer, I've studied probability/statistics/theories thereof for a good amount of my life. QUALITY of data is everything and it is directly proportional to the quality of conclusions you can draw from said data set. This is why so much effort and care is put into the control of data before any serious analysis can be ran and subsequent, coherent conclusions can be drawn such as "17 models are not an "if" but "when""

Everyone points towards the poll on this online forum because it really is the only visible record of these instances ever occurring at all. i get it.

But let's critically think about this data set. who is actually on this forum? what percentage of owners that have the affected model year cars are on this forum contributing to said poll? ~ 150 poll responses out of ~ 9200 17/18 model year cars produced. 1.6% of these owners have reported issues. Of course, not all that have had oil pumps fail are on this forum BUT THE INVERSE IS ALSO TRUE. Do you really expect me to believe that the other 98.4% of vehicles (~9,000) are going to smoke the oil pump too? I ask you seriously, is it even logical to make that large of a leap and assume the 9000 others are on borrowed time? Because I'm pretty positive an OVERWHELMING MAJORITY are just fine and will remain to be, and the actual calculated probability of this happening to your 17/18 is very low.

Having people make the decision to not drive the car at all or just keep it put up because of this poll is objectively/statistically irrational and indeed paranoia.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by KamZL1

No that's not what I'm thinking. Let me explain, I'm not trying to be condescending either.

I'm an engineer, I've studied probability/statistics/theories thereof for a good amount of my life. QUALITY of data is everything and it is directly proportional to the quality of conclusions you can draw from said data set. This is why so much effort and care is put into the control of data before any serious analysis can be ran and subsequent, coherent conclusions can be drawn such as "17 models are not an "if" but "when""

Everyone points towards the poll on this online forum because it really is the only visible record of these instances ever occurring at all. i get it.

But let's critically think about this data set. who is actually on this forum? what percentage of owners that have the affected model year cars are on this forum contributing to said poll? ~ 150 poll responses out of ~ 9200 17/18 model year cars produced. 1.6% of these owners have reported issues. Of course, not all that have had oil pumps fail are on this forum BUT THE INVERSE IS ALSO TRUE. Do you really expect me to believe that the other 98.4% of vehicles (~9,000) are going to smoke the oil pump too? I ask you seriously, is it even logical to make that large of a leap and assume the 9000 others are on borrowed time? Because I'm pretty positive an OVERWHELMING MAJORITY are just fine and will remain to be, and the actual calculated probability of this happening to your 17/18 is very low.

Having people make the decision to not drive the car at all or just keep it put up because of this poll is objectively/statistically irrational and indeed paranoia.

Hey, if it makes you feel better to keep your head in the sand, that's fine. Its not just this poll either, there are numerous FB groups where this failure shows up also, and its ALWAYS 2017/2018 models.

[LT4Greg]

Originally Posted by NicKey

Greg, your oil pressure at idle, hot should be 32lbs give or take a couple of lbs. If you are seeing 20lbs (which GM says is OK) then you have an issue! The two main culprits are, oil is too thin or your pump has an issue.

Also GM upgraded their oil recomendation in 2018 to 0-40 Dexos 2. This is Corvette but same for ZL1. We follow the GM guide line for the ZR1 when tracking the ZL1.

Thanks for the info!

[KamZL1]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

Hey, if it makes you feel better to keep your head in the sand, that's fine. Its not just this poll either, there are numerous FB groups where this failure shows up also, and its ALWAYS 2017/2018 models.

Not saying ignore it either. I'm saying letting the fear of this very unlikely event (statistically speaking) keep you from using the car is just bad reasoning and not logical.

This is equivalent of not going to the grocery store because you have a slight chance of dying in a car accident.

[NicKey]

KamZl1,

I agree with your premise, but your data point is flawed. We specialize in ZL1 Camaros and the failure issue is real. A percentage of the population who own these cars have already changed out and upgraded their pumps. Certainly not all, but a percentage. Just ask K-tech how many of their pumps they have sold. The vast majority of our customers who own the cars in question have upgraded their pumps and we currently make the upgrades when we work on these cars as part of our SOP. I would think this type of preventative behavior will result in lower number of publicized failures.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by KamZL1

Not saying ignore it either. I'm saying letting the fear of this very unlikely event (statistically speaking) keep you from using the car is just bad reasoning and not logical.

This is equivalent of not going to the grocery store because you have a slight chance of dying in a car accident.

You may not ever have a failure or maybe yours is still coming. Its really up to you to decide if you want to take the gamble. Many people do, some regret it. Only you can make that decision.

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

You may not ever have a failure or maybe yours is still coming. Its really up to you to decide if you want to take the gamble. Many people do, some regret it. Only you can make that decision.

My personal approach is an oil pressure alarm on my banks gauge, if it ever drops below 28 psi, I get an alarm (I set it a little low since sometimes pressure dips a little momentarily on takeoff with the M6). Right now my hot idle oil pressure is always 31-32.

As I understand it, the failure mode of the ring on these pumps starts to show reduced pressure as the crack initiates and begins to propagate. At that point, you see lower oil pressure.

For me, if I see it drop into the 20's, I'm driving it straight home and ordering all the parts for heads/cam/pump, etc. and I'll start pulling it apart.

I understand there is a chance it might fail catastrophically, too, but I think that chance is very low based on the empirical evidence we have between the forum and FB.

That's my strategy. It might not work for everyone, but I'm comfortable with it. I drive it every day. The pump will either get replaced when I do a cam in the next year or two, or it will get replaced if the pressure drops due to early failure signs.

If it fails and eats the block, then so be it, that's the risk I took (and I'll be getting a stout long block to replace it)

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

My personal approach is an oil pressure alarm on my banks gauge, if it ever drops below 28 psi, I get an alarm (I set it a little low since sometimes pressure dips a little momentarily on takeoff with the M6). Right now my hot idle oil pressure is always 31-32.

As I understand it, the failure mode of the ring on these pumps starts to show reduced pressure as the crack initiates and begins to propagate. At that point, you see lower oil pressure.

For me, if I see it drop into the 20's, I'm driving it straight home and ordering all the parts for heads/cam/pump, etc. and I'll start pulling it apart.

I understand there is a chance it might fail catastrophically, too, but I think that chance is very low based on the empirical evidence we have between the forum and FB.

That's my strategy. It might not work for everyone, but I'm comfortable with it. I drive it every day. The pump will either get replaced when I do a cam in the next year or two, or it will get replaced if the pressure drops due to early failure signs.

If it fails and eats the block, then so be it, that's the risk I took (and I'll be getting a stout long block to replace it)

That is the most common failure but I've heard of a few people having extremely high oil pressure also when it failed.

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

That is the most common failure but I've heard of a few people having extremely high oil pressure also when it failed.

Good to know. Guess I need to set a high alarm too!

[KamZL1]

Originally Posted by NicKey

KamZl1,

I agree with your premise, but your data point is flawed. We specialize in ZL1 Camaros and the failure issue is real. A percentage of the population who own these cars have already changed out and upgraded their pumps. Certainly not all, but a percentage. Just ask K-tech how many of their pumps they have sold. The vast majority of our customers who own the cars in question have upgraded their pumps and we currently make the upgrades when we work on these cars as part of our SOP. I would think this type of preventative behavior will result in lower number of publicized failures.

Yes it is a problem, yes it does exist. I'm not denying this and GM certainly is not either. I would be lying to you if I said the paranoia has not affected me to some degree as well. I just think it's blown way out of proportion when I see post like OP's.

A valid point, and goes into my quality of data assertion. Was this pump on its last leg or was it never going to fail in the first place? Now we never truly know without some NDE/NDT, but what I am not willing to do is chalk it up to yeah that thing was getting ready to grenade anyway bc it's a 17/18, add it to list of failures and let's propagate more fear of a very unlikely outcome online.

I have seen multiple on this forum do this as preventative as well. Truth be told, I prob would/will do the same when I do cam work due to labor overlap, as many do but at the end of the day though, we still have to recognize that people coming into your full service speed shop to build these cars and working with Katech on buying a billet oil pump are still a MUCH smaller percentage of overall owners compared to vast majority that have been and will continue to be just fine on OEM.

I also want to add that I think it's sad this is even a discussion. The LT4 is nothing short of an automotive engineering achievement marred by what seems to be a manufacturing/metallurgy error affecting specific batches of these oil pumps during a specific and isolated time interval. QC has to be better on your products when you are asking a consumer to spend 70/80k. This is still one of the most robust, reliable, and capable platforms we have or ever will see.

[pauly1119]

To me I’d rather pay 4K and enjoy the car. Funny thing is I use to think these guys changing the pumps are crazy, I had mine done a few months back and I’m very glad I did before or if I would ever have a problem. I also did the timing chain and tensioner. My original pump looks great but you can see
A huge difference between the 2.