[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by 90503

Yes the tax credit has been around. Different criteria, but still there. GM used theirs up on the Bolt and Volt (discontinued). Amazingly the price of the Bolt went down substantially after there was no more tax credit available.

coincidence is not cause and effect. The time period being referenced is coinciding with significant improvements in battery technology and supplier changes.

The tax credit became unavailable to coincide with the volume sales of vehicles which coincides with getting them marketable at quantity.

So it's expected that the price is dropping as that tax credit expired because that's how it was designed to function. It's not that the cost was synthetically higher because the tax credit existed.

likewise, we wont see the cost of vehicles increase now that a new credit is available. Instead we expect to see an ever increasing pool of vehicles below 40k to replace the market currently being served by low cost ICE vehicles. And it would not be in the interest of car manufacturers to give those buyers a reason to not buy new, so they will not eat the "extra" 8k that buyers get from the government because those buyers dont have that money until the end of the year and that added cost can easily push them into the used market or non-ownership. Which car manufacturers dont want. All the tax credit does is accelerate early adoption because there is still an early adopter penalty with EV vehicles. It isn't being actively exploited as if it were inflation.

[Need4Camaro]

Honestly, I’ve seen a lot of Bolts just sitting at dealerships while it’s almost impossible to get your hands on an Ioniq 6, EV 5, Tesla or any EV with decent range / recharge time. To me it felt like the Bolt dropped in price because they don’t really compete very well in terms of range and recharge times to the competing EV’s.

[Gen6cyl]

I have heard the bolt drives sporty.

[digitalfutur]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

the problem is, that opinion is obviously a minority one, which should be no surprise since our interest in cars is a minority one. That wannabe mustang sells very nearly as many of itself as ford sells of the 'proper' mustang these days.

the public seems to really not care about buying coupes, and if they can shine up their forgettable suv with a name that is iconic, they'll buy. Companies would be pretty stupid to not do it. Even though it's wrong. Manufacturers aren't controlled by enthusiasts, they're controlled by investors.

Correct.

In 2021 in the U.S. Ford sold 52,414 Mustangs and 27,140 Mustang-Es.

In 2021 through July, the figures are 29,611 and 22,645 respectively. The EV outsold the ICE version for the 3 months ending July 12,106 to 11.248 cars.

Despite all the phony EV outrage from the usual suspects and vested interests, consumers collectively are who car companies pay attention to, not the loudest voice.

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by digitalfutur

Correct.

In 2021 in the U.S. Ford sold 52,414 Mustangs and 27,140 Mustang-Es.

In 2021 through July, the figures are 29,611 and 22,645 respectively. The EV outsold the ICE version for the 3 months ending July 12,106 to 11.248 cars.

Despite all the phony EV outrage from the usual suspects and vested interests, consumers collectively are who car companies pay attention to, not the loudest voice.

The pickup truck owners will have the largest say money wise since pickup trucks are the most sold vehicle in the US still. If you think this "Phoney EV outrage" is just in the performance vehicle segment I would suggest you widen your scope to the bigger picture. I think people on here forget they exist. You can't claim Minority and Majority without having the whole picture. Ram sent out surveys a year or so ago and the family friend that is letting us use his truck till we get our own got one and it had a section for EVs and ICE. Long story short there is a reason why the Ram CEO said no end date for ICE Trucks. The Big Three are not really to piss off their biggest profit segment though and probably won't. California can make any laws it wants too but they need to remember this is not the United States of California it is the United States of America and they need to remember that. Pickups aren't the only segment where EV outrage is coming from as well.

The Muscle car community is too small unfortunately and unless Ford somehow maintains a big enough Sale of the Coyote V8 Mustang after the Camaro and Dodge v8 Twins are gone then that will be gone as well.

[Junction65]

I would take any sales numbers from 2020 and 2021 with a grain of salt. They are not indicative of a normal inventory situation and are skewed as such.

My mom went to purchase a new Ford Escape during that period. The local Ford dealer had no car inventory for the most part other than the eMach. They tried to steer her to it touting some of the same talking points I've seen in these threads. Similar situation at the local Chevrolet dealership relative to inventory.

She ended up in a Buick.

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by funked1

For now. Florida will be largely gone by 2100.

in case you werent aware of it central florida was an inland sea during the age of the dinosaurs.you can go to fort meade and surrounding areas where they dredge for phosphate and find sharks teeth,sand dollars,etc. that are a couple of million years old.anyway,i always wanted beachfront property.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

The pickup truck owners will have the largest say money wise since pickup trucks are the most sold vehicle in the US still. If you think this "Phoney EV outrage" is just in the performance vehicle segment I would suggest you widen your scope to the bigger picture. I think people on here forget they exist. You can't claim Minority and Majority without having the whole picture. Ram sent out surveys a year or so ago and the family friend that is letting us use his truck till we get our own got one and it had a section for EVs and ICE. Long story short there is a reason why the Ram CEO said no end date for ICE Trucks. The Big Three are not really to piss off their biggest profit segment though and probably won't. California can make any laws it wants too but they need to remember this is not the United States of California it is the United States of America and they need to remember that. Pickups aren't the only segment where EV outrage is coming from as well.

The Muscle car community is too small unfortunately and unless Ford somehow maintains a big enough Sale of the Coyote V8 Mustang after the Camaro and Dodge v8 Twins are gone then that will be gone as well.

If you tow, you will see a degradation just like gas and diesel trucks that tow. But the recent magazine test was pretty condemning of EV performance but everyone forgets the gas engine GMC in the test also sucked big time.

But to your point, the Lightning and upcoming Silverado will satisfy 90% of pickup buyers. Most people that buy a pickup don’t tow…..at all. So 300 miles of EV range will be just fine and it still comes down to charging time and convenience. Now not in the test was towing a jet ski or motorcycles. That will be much better than 90 miles and make towing less of a concern. Time will answer this question and customer dollars will determine the victor.

What I can definitely see in California, is a business that refurbishes older cars to like new condition. How about paying 80% of new for a used car with a rebuilt drivetrain and brakes and suspension and deep cleaning inside and out? That business is coming and a California just created it.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Gen6cyl

I have heard the bolt drives sporty.

EVs in general drive better than you would think. While they are heavy, the batteries are mounted low and create a low CG for surprisingly good handling. When combined with instant torque they put a big smile on the face for someone used to driving a Honda Civic.

When we start to see EV sports cars and sedans I am pretty confident folks will be impressed with how they perform. The obstacle to overcome for a lot of us enthusiasts is that they have to be ok with giving up a manual transmission, paddle shifters, vibration and exhaust note.

Look at the Corvette. No manual and they can’t build them fast enough to meet demand. I know all the hype is around the Z06 and the high revving flat plane crank but I think the ERay is going the be the Corvette that surprises a lot of people.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by Gen6cyl

I have heard the bolt drives sporty.

So does a Nissan Leaf. Both have kick-you-in-the-kidneys-off-the-line torque like a LT4. Full torque at zero rpm is a thing kinda like the first time you went on a roller coaster: it has to be tried to be fully understood. It's like an amusement park ride, fun for a day.

But after 100 days? what matters more to you? driving experience? size/utility? quiet? environmental citizenship? convenience? cost of ownership?

Most Bolt owners I've talked to like their cars, despite battery issues/concerns; similar to how most Tesla owners I've talked to like their cars as well despite a few quality/reliability ghosts. The owner of the Leaf that I've driven is looking back toward ICE or hybrid for his next car: Not enough range and longer range alternatives aren't as attractive as ICE alternatives for the same $.

[Two Lane Black Top]

Not if it has the looks & personality of a toaster, like most of today's electric cars.

In ten years, maybe if the styling is acceptable 🤔

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Two Lane Black Top

Not if it has the looks & personality of a toaster, like most of today's electric cars.

In ten years, maybe if the styling is acceptable 🤔

Ok, I’ll ask nice. Just stop with this.

First most toasters are stainless and that didn’t last beyond the Delorean.

You may not like the look, but the Taycan, eTron GT, Model S, MB EQS are not toasters or even close. You may not like EVs and that's cool, but the GMC Hummer, Lyriq and Blazer EV and OMG Celestiq are wonderfully styled in their own unique ways.

Again, absolutely ok that an EV doesn’t work for you or even if you mistakenly think it’s the government. Just stop with the none of themlook good. That’s just flat out not true.

[Chrome383Z]

Originally Posted by Number 3

What I can definitely see in California, is a business that refurbishes older cars to like new condition. How about paying 80% of new for a used car with a rebuilt drivetrain and brakes and suspension and deep cleaning inside and out? That business is coming and a California just created it.

Probably, however these type of businesses have been around for decades… in Cuba.

[Junction65]

Here’s How Much A 2012 Chevy Volt Battery Pack Replacement Could Cost