[Bangkok_ZL1]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

The real environmental impact of EV's is not yet realized. Once we have to start mass disposing of those batteries, then we can say whether we should have stuck with ICE or not.

There is no free lunch, there will always be an environmental impact, it just shifts as to at what point in the process it is at.

Agree, It's worse than people know....... Even solar which appears to be free, is not. There is a cost (lots of it hidden) to everything.

[Bangkok_ZL1]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I agree, however, EV battery reuse is already a thing. After they wear out in a car, they can be reused in applications that require less draw, like low power applications.

However, I completely agree, I don't think the world governments and corporations, and it's [mostly uneducated or incompetent] citizens who blindly follow what is fed to them through their gov't leaders or biased media have considered the ramifications of EVs:

1) The massive natural resources and land mining for precious metals required to make 10s of millions of batteries per year and subsequent transportation of those resources.
2) The fact that many, many places still get power from coal
3) The fact that many, many places do not have the power infrastructure to handle 10s of millions of EVs and the daily charge required
4) Disposal after reuse. At least with ICEs the metal engines can be melted and reused, WTH are they going to do with 100s of milions of EV batteries starting in a decade or two? That alone scares the begeezus out of me for the environment.
5) Tesla mastered this whole EV thing, and everyone else is following, playing catchup -- the ENTIRE WORLD!!! Do we really want a vehicle infrastructure that Elon Musk mastered simply for profit? For Pete's sake.

Everyone thinks that just because the car isn't polluting while it's driving, that it has minimal environmental impact. That couldn't be further from the truth.

I think Tesla is relying on evolution. The industry will improve the way it does everything with new technologies..... We'll see. We'll also see what new thing hasn't been discovered yet at all, like pipe space into some satellite reactor to beam the energy down to earth......
I only know one thing..... Compared to a few hundred years ago or even thousands of years ago, or even 80 years ago, with all the war, hunger, sewage issues, pestilence then. We live in the greatest time ever. Let's hope it somehow gets better. And Boise is a great place to live!!! Hope to go back there someday.

[willzilla]

Tesla may have mastered the EV but they lose money on every car they sell currently... They only make a profit from selling regulatory credits to other automakers. With all automakers working on their own EVs Tesla will have less and less ability to sell these regulatory credits and I wonder if they will still be doing so well?

Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

[laynlo15]

My son in law bought a new M2 last year. He road races it and loves it. It is a good looking ride and pretty dam fast. He was road racing his 2018 340 twin turbo BMW but says this M2 is just bad ass compared to it. He just lowered it so it should be able to lower his track times again. He's also an instructor and is really good on his set ups.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by Bangkok_ZL1

We'll also see what new thing hasn't been discovered yet at all, like pipe space into some satellite reactor to beam the energy down to earth...

Huh?

Hydrogen is the ultimate fuel. The sun is a feat of masterclass engineering the human mind can barely comprehend. It is one thing to follow someone's thoughts after them, but a whole different realm to create from nothing, with no one to counsel. For who has known the mind of God? Or who has been His counselor?

[IneedAZ]

For same money also look at Audi RS3

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

Huh?

Hydrogen is the ultimate fuel. The sun is a feat of masterclass engineering the human mind can barely comprehend. It is one thing to follow someone's thoughts after them, but a whole different realm to create from nothing, with no one to counsel. For who has known the mind of God? Or who has been His counselor?

Exactly. And along those lines, fusion is the ultimate method of energy production, emulating God's idea and design, which is the best we're capable of and the worthiest engineering goal.

Even 40 years ago, when I was a little kid, I read about fusion reactors as being "just around the corner", "if only we could figure out a stable method of constraining the plasma in the Tokamak". Unfortunately, this is super difficult to achieve at all, let alone in a direct vehicle application, but its energy production potential is very high, while its nuclear waste output and accident risk remain extremely low. Would definitely be much nicer than expensive solar panels or whining giant wind turbines covering half the land.

[Bangkok_ZL1]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

Huh?

Hydrogen is the ultimate fuel. The sun is a feat of masterclass engineering the human mind can barely comprehend. It is one thing to follow someone's thoughts after them, but a whole different realm to create from nothing, with no one to counsel. For who has known the mind of God? Or who has been His counselor?

Yes, to our knowledge at this time Hydrogen is the ultimate..... Let's see if it can be harnessed. But once again, just because something is the best fuel doesn't mean that it will ultimately be best for humans and the earth at this time. We'll just have to see. If efficiency can be 10 times greater Solar would be awesome, according to scientists. Also according to the same scientists, the laws of physics won't allow technology to increase 10 times in electrical generation from solar cells. So it's going to depend on more than facet. We'll just have to see. Or better, my descendants will just have to see....

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by JBinSD

I sold my '16 2SS M6 Vert to buy a Model 3 Performance, and man, I really regret selling my Camaro; it had so much soul and connection. My wife and daughter loved doing Sunday top-down, back-road, tunes-blaring cruises. They refuse to go with me in the Tesla. It is "too fast" and "makes them sick".
The instant power and precise handling of the Tesla is undeniable, and not buying gas, nor polluting the planet, are great things. I still will buy another Camaro, but right now the used market is insanely high.
Once Covid is under control, and the current administration kicks in larger and larger gas taxes, I predict V-8s are going to fall out of fashion for the general public, as tiny turbo 4's and EV's take over. I just don't know if I can wait that long to snap up a snarling V-8 with a manual tranny and a drop-top.
I drove my Tesla down to a dealer to test drive a '21 2SS vert, and I couldn't trade it in; I want both now, as the strengths and practicality of the Tesla are undeniable; I need to soul connection of the V-8 for my weekend romps in the hills. In a commute or "real world" driving, I'll take the Model 3; hell it drove me home in stop and go traffic, turning, accelerating and braking its own, and fed itself on my solar panels.
Each has pleasure and purpose. Some of you forget, Tesla is the "other American Muscle" car.

I went down this path as well. Sold Camaro SS and bought a Tesla Model 3 Performance. Ridiculous off the line performance, instant torque and throttle response, low operating costs but lacks character. They make for great daily driver but no drive modes, no sound or vibration, no mag ride suspension, lacks sporty seats to hold you in place. The interior doesn’t feel special for an enthusiast, no gauges, no cockpit feel.

What I learned from this experience is that there is a lot more to the driving experience than 0-60 times. It is cool but it gets old. That said, I sold the Tesla and got a ZL1. My wife still has a Tesla Model 3 SR+. We use the Tesla for a lot of the daily driving and I drive the ZL1 when I am really in the mood to drive. Best of both worlds.

I hope as GM goes all in on EVs that they find a way to inject some character into their performance EVs. When they remove the sound, vibration, transmission they need to at least have excellent driving dynamics. The car will need to be playful, which means relaxed nanny control, drive modes, mag ride, killer styling, etc. they need to find a way to make all that instant torque fun. In the Tesla you can’t even spin a tire, it just grips and goes. Effective but boring for an enthusiast.

[EDFHOBBIES]

Unless you just don't like the C8 that should be one that you listed!

I got on the Zo6 list like I found a dealer that only charges MSRP although there is no official price yet its supposed to be about 85k. I found 2 dealers that don't mark up unless you didn't get on the waiting list. You can see what happen to the the c8 crowd that wanted one and not preordering. 20 to 30k over msrp HA!

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

Unless you just don't like the C8 that should be one that you listed!

I got on the Zo6 list like I found a dealer that only charges MSRP although there is no official price yet its supposed to be about 85k. I found 2 dealers that don't mark up unless you didn't get on the waiting list. You can see what happen to the the c8 crowd that wanted one and not preordering. 20 to 30k over msrp HA!

Yeah, I did get a chance to drive a C8 Z51 on track and it was fantastic. I am sure the Z06 will be next level as well. The pricing is starting to get out of my comfort zone though. A base Z06 for $85k plus destination, taxes and fees. If you just add a couple options it will be $100k easy. That said, Corvettes do seem to always hold their value pretty well.

[L78toLT1]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

My car (SS at ZL1-ish power) begins pulling on a Model 3 Performance at about 60 mph, by that time it's car lengths ahead, but the gap closes relatively quickly afterwards. Theoretically speaking, of course.

Arpad, you've got far more than "ZL1ish" power. when I dynoed my car with just the blower, headers and CAI, it put down 568whp, a stock ZL1 dynoed immediately afterwards at around 550whp. As you know, the addition of the cam, fueling and boost makes a huge difference. Your car will destroy a stock ZL1. It'll stop now also with those pretty new red brakes😀

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by L78toLT1

Arpad, you've got far more than "ZL1ish" power. when I dynoed my car with just the blower, headers and CAI, it put down 568whp, a stock ZL1 dynoed immediately afterwards at around 550whp. As you know, the addition of the cam, fueling and boost makes a huge difference. Your car will destroy a stock ZL1. It'll stop now also with those pretty new red brakes��

Heh, I had 560 rwhp when I wrote that comment

I'm sure these red calipers add at least 25 hp per corner, though, so at that rate I must be near 1000 at the crank now

[v8]

I have been thinking about a Model 3 for a daily driver, and keep the ICE engine powered vehicle for fun.