[ZX-10R]

Remove it before a major warranty claim. The chances of a failed engine in this car are probably 1% or less. That's a really lazy excuse not to install a catch can which has been proven to remove 95% of blowby going into to your intake

[cdrptrks]

To be safe you need to remove it every time it goes to the dealership until warranty runs out or they could flag it and deny warranty coverage later even if you removed it after having an engine problem but they noted the catch can on a previous visit.

[cellsafemode]

you're basically committing fraud by changing the mods prior to a claim

They're also breaking the law by refusing warranty service for unrelated problems to a mod.

Basically it just comes down to... if you need to care about your warranty, pretend your car is leased. Otherwise, roll the dice and stop worrying.

The fun-ness of car ownership. I have no idea why fewer people want to get involved these days. Between the strong-arming of being an owner and the 100% guarantee that you're always breaking some law everytime you get behind the wheel.

[L8Apex]

FWIW, mine just spent 4 days at the dealership with them looking all over the car and no mention of my catch can voiding my warranty from them. I do think some dealerships look for any reason to deny a claim though.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

To be safe you need to remove it every time it goes to the dealership until warranty runs out or they could flag it and deny warranty coverage later even if you removed it after having an engine problem but they noted the catch can on a previous visit.

I never go to a dealer for oil changes, etc

It's not "fraud" because a catch can has absolutely nothing to do with engine failure - scientifically impossible to make any connection, especially if it's not vented. It has zero impact on air/fuel ratios or anything else, and it should have come that way from the factory.

[Elite Engineering]

BlackbeastSS2


Good dialog. And lets go over the video first.


The guy in the video is hard to watch, but one thing that is certain is with today's GDI engines, MOST "catchcans" do little to benefit today's GDI engines, and that is why we have a Patented system (Utility patent # US 10,619,536) that is unequaled in effectiveness and function. Most purchase only based on appearance or because someone says it's good without any testing or research and actual data. A reason we have the long replies is we reference actual data and 3rd party information. We are the only one out of all the brands big and small that has done as much with 3rd parties doing the testing, etc. From one of the most respected lubrication labs that spent 2 years and purchased a fleet of GDI engine vehicles to Turbonetics head of Engineering doing real time in-house testing on their big boost turbo builds. But we still urge ANYONE that has any doubts to perform the tests themselves. So no, most are a waste as far as benefiting a GDI engine. On a port injection engine any oil your stopping is going to help some as they can tolerate a certain amount of ingestion (aside from knock retard of course).


On the can you have, you have to first look at the internal design. You will see when you take it apart both the incoming oil and contaminant laden vapors and the outgoing "cleaned" vapors mix in a common large chamber, so it is impossible for that design to really trap more than 30-40% (yes some will state "I don't see my intake full of oil any longer"), but when the tests are conducted, our patented design second in line will trap as much or more than the can first in line. So yes, plenty is getting past and still ingested. Then we have to look at the breather. The breather has a rubber flap inside that will open when your crankcase builds a certain amount of pressure....and release most of it, but that is not in anyway ideal, and this is why. ALL engines today are built with low tension piston rings. These, unlike the engines of old with high tension rings, need SUCTION on the crankcase to retain stability and avoid ring flutter. Ring flutter is when the rings enter into a state of rapid vibration. When this occurs, blow-by increases as the seal is less than desired and over time this wears not only the leading edges of the rings, but the ring lands as well as eventually small "divots" into the cylinder walls (engine builders will recognize this). So you never want to allow pressure to build and then vent. Not only does this contribute to ring flutter, but it also is when the constantly entering combustion byproducts will settle and mix with the engine oil. Once there, it is not easily removed. That is why we pull full time evacuation suction on the crankcase, which you could do as your thinking with two of the checkvalves, and then accomplish the two separate vacuum sources, but there are a few issues you will still have. One is the lack of an effective air oil separation. Two is your not addressing the clean or fresh side of the PCV system unless your retaining the factory CSS, which is fine. But if your game, and would commit to conducting the "Catchcan Challenge", and document each step and keep a dedicated thread going with documenting all. Each step. That requires being as fair and equitable as possible. Each must be done as close to the other as possible. If interested, email me direct at: Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com


Below are illustrations to help understand both GDI and how it differs from engines of old, and understanding piston ring flutter.


<a href="https://app.photobucket.com/u/tech17/p/1aee22b2-f178-425f-91fd-093ac2146308" target="_blank"><img src="https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/j392/tech17/.highres/GDI%20vs%20Port%20inject_zpsszy1s9bn.jpg" border="0" alt="GDI vs Port inject_zpsszy1s9bn"/></a>

<a href="https://app.photobucket.com/u/tech17/p/a6563fe2-b768-40b1-ba2e-0fb9b6698475" target="_blank"><img src="https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j392/tech17/Ringflutter.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds" border="0" alt="Ringflutter"/></a>



LT4Greg As for warranty, that is the case we went over in detail in out last post. And how it ended up, so no, out of over 20,000 plus in use, that is the only case and was determined to be absolutely in no way related to the catchcan. It was the well known oil pump failure and the tech diagnosed a blown engine, yet the owner had the pump changed and all was fine, so those are the type of unscrupulous dealer to avoid. The intent was a "double dip" where the service writer claims warranty is void and you need a new engine. Charge you AND get reimbursed from GM. One of the biggest and hardest scams to uncover and prevent, but it happens.


This is good to have dialog. Answering questions and discussing all aspects of what is far more confusing than it should be.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

I never go to a dealer for oil changes, etc

It's not "fraud" because a catch can has absolutely nothing to do with engine failure - scientifically impossible to make any connection, especially if it's not vented. It has zero impact on air/fuel ratios or anything else, and it should have come that way from the factory.

The fraud is you changing the car to look like something wasn't done when it was done. It may be unrelated, but you're doing it soley for the purpose of hiding the true state of the car from the dealer. It's fraud.

The fact that it's unrelated doesn't really make a difference. It's obviously how things are done and less of a hassle, but two wrongs and all that jazz.

[caSStro18]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

The fraud is you changing the car to look like something wasn't done when it was done. It may be unrelated, but you're doing it soley for the purpose of hiding the true state of the car from the dealer. It's fraud.

The fact that it's unrelated doesn't really make a difference. It's obviously how things are done and less of a hassle, but two wrongs and all that jazz.

I think they are not legal in California anyway due to them not being CARB compliant. So, there must be some effect on emissions, at least from the perspective of California. But, then again lots of things are not legal in California such as cold air intakes (except the Chevy Performance one), AFM disablers, etc. So...idk.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

It's fraud.

Whatever, I really could care less - just doing what should have been done from the factory. No possible way it can contribute to engine failure. Oil stays cleaner and no build up on the valves, win-win. I hate fuel contaminated oil and it is a very common problem.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

Whatever, I really could care less - just doing what should have been done from the factory. No possible way it can contribute to engine failure. Oil stays cleaner and no build up on the valves, win-win. I hate fuel contaminated oil and it is a very common problem.

You keep in on then. take it to the dealer with it on is the point. Installing a catch can itself is fine (except for carb).

People take it off to avoid the hassle of having to prove it's not what caused a given problem. But the law says they need to do the opposite. they need to prove it did.

But technically, you shouldn't be misrepresenting the product as you use it when complaining about something not working.


As for the carb compliance:

The market for catch can users is even smaller than CAI buyers. And they can barely manage to send CAI's to get certified and those things cost over 10 times as much as a catch can. It would probably be exempt if anyone bothered.

So yea.. we're all law breakers as car enthusiasts. Whether lying to dealers or to emissions testers ...or driving over the speed limit.

[ZX-10R]

Manufacturers don't install catch cans for very simple reasons (even though they know direct injection engines need it, especially boosted engines): customers are lazy, don't like routine maintenance, and can't be trusted to empty a catch can responsibly.

But they work!

[s346k]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

So yea.. we're all law breakers as car enthusiasts.

by definition, yes. average drive consists of how many traffic laws being broken? now look at the car from a violation standpoint. tint, exhaust, fuel, tires, etc. funny to think on paper we're really bad people. killing the environment and endangering public safety at all times.

catch cans don't pass the bad stuff, they collect it and make it easily disposable. the point of modern pcv systems is to route the contaminants and environmentally dangerous materials/gasses back into the engine to be burnt clean at high temps. there is A LOT more than just oil in that system, none of which you want in any part of your engine. if you (impersonal) think altering the pcv has no impact on emissions, you are mistaken.

[Zaqwert6]

Still going on about this? LOL



4 and 5 gas analysis has proven that a (properly) added catch can shows zero change in emissions. If not vented, it's completely emissions legal. I thought I said I've had that checked multiple times in past. Believe or not I guess, or test it yourself. The machine doesn't lie. Federal and state standards are the law.



Anyway...



I'm out of it from here, waste of time comparing tested facts with random internet opinions. My PMs are always open for further discussion. 'Night all.



/clicks unsubscribe/

Originally Posted by s346k

by definition, yes. average drive consists of how many traffic laws being broken? now look at the car from a violation standpoint. tint, exhaust, fuel, tires, etc. funny to think on paper we're really bad people. killing the environment and endangering public safety at all times.

catch cans don't pass the bad stuff, they collect it and make it easily disposable. the point of modern pcv systems is to route the contaminants and environmentally dangerous materials/gasses back into the engine to be burnt clean at high temps. there is A LOT more than just oil in that system, none of which you want in any part of your engine. if you (impersonal) think altering the pcv has no impact on emissions, you are mistaken.

[BlackbeastSS2]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

BlackbeastSS2


Good dialog. And lets go over the video first.


The guy in the video is hard to watch, but one thing that is certain is with today's GDI engines, MOST "catchcans" do little to benefit today's GDI engines, and that is why we have a Patented system (Utility patent # US 10,619,536) that is unequaled in effectiveness and function. Most purchase only based on appearance or because someone says it's good without any testing or research and actual data. A reason we have the long replies is we reference actual data and 3rd party information. We are the only one out of all the brands big and small that has done as much with 3rd parties doing the testing, etc. From one of the most respected lubrication labs that spent 2 years and purchased a fleet of GDI engine vehicles to Turbonetics head of Engineering doing real time in-house testing on their big boost turbo builds. But we still urge ANYONE that has any doubts to perform the tests themselves. So no, most are a waste as far as benefiting a GDI engine. On a port injection engine any oil your stopping is going to help some as they can tolerate a certain amount of ingestion (aside from knock retard of course).


On the can you have, you have to first look at the internal design. You will see when you take it apart both the incoming oil and contaminant laden vapors and the outgoing "cleaned" vapors mix in a common large chamber, so it is impossible for that design to really trap more than 30-40% (yes some will state "I don't see my intake full of oil any longer"), but when the tests are conducted, our patented design second in line will trap as much or more than the can first in line. So yes, plenty is getting past and still ingested. Then we have to look at the breather. The breather has a rubber flap inside that will open when your crankcase builds a certain amount of pressure....and release most of it, but that is not in anyway ideal, and this is why. ALL engines today are built with low tension piston rings. These, unlike the engines of old with high tension rings, need SUCTION on the crankcase to retain stability and avoid ring flutter. Ring flutter is when the rings enter into a state of rapid vibration. When this occurs, blow-by increases as the seal is less than desired and over time this wears not only the leading edges of the rings, but the ring lands as well as eventually small "divots" into the cylinder walls (engine builders will recognize this). So you never want to allow pressure to build and then vent. Not only does this contribute to ring flutter, but it also is when the constantly entering combustion byproducts will settle and mix with the engine oil. Once there, it is not easily removed. That is why we pull full time evacuation suction on the crankcase, which you could do as your thinking with two of the checkvalves, and then accomplish the two separate vacuum sources, but there are a few issues you will still have. One is the lack of an effective air oil separation. Two is your not addressing the clean or fresh side of the PCV system unless your retaining the factory CSS, which is fine. But if your game, and would commit to conducting the "Catchcan Challenge", and document each step and keep a dedicated thread going with documenting all. Each step. That requires being as fair and equitable as possible. Each must be done as close to the other as possible. If interested, email me direct at: Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com


Below are illustrations to help understand both GDI and how it differs from engines of old, and understanding piston ring flutter.


<a href="https://app.photobucket.com/u/tech17/p/1aee22b2-f178-425f-91fd-093ac2146308" target="_blank"><img src="https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/j392/tech17/.highres/GDI%20vs%20Port%20inject_zpsszy1s9bn.jpg" border="0" alt="GDI vs Port inject_zpsszy1s9bn"/></a>

<a href="https://app.photobucket.com/u/tech17/p/a6563fe2-b768-40b1-ba2e-0fb9b6698475" target="_blank"><img src="https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j392/tech17/Ringflutter.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds" border="0" alt="Ringflutter"/></a>



LT4Greg As for warranty, that is the case we went over in detail in out last post. And how it ended up, so no, out of over 20,000 plus in use, that is the only case and was determined to be absolutely in no way related to the catchcan. It was the well known oil pump failure and the tech diagnosed a blown engine, yet the owner had the pump changed and all was fine, so those are the type of unscrupulous dealer to avoid. The intent was a "double dip" where the service writer claims warranty is void and you need a new engine. Charge you AND get reimbursed from GM. One of the biggest and hardest scams to uncover and prevent, but it happens.


This is good to have dialog. Answering questions and discussing all aspects of what is far more confusing than it should be.

Okay I am back and have changed my mind and setup after reading more and viewing post like yours. I decided to go with two catch cans, the Mighty Mouse Catch can which I had installed at the start of the thread. I decided to monitor the breather cap and felt like there was no adverse side effects to cars performance, no rough idle, and no check engine lights. In reading my concern started to drift to engine life could possibly be less with out the PCV tube into the air intake tube. So I picked up an oil separator and put into the line of the PCV line into the air intake tube. I ended up putting the line underneath the elbow to hide the line and make the air intake tube a bit more appealing especially after I did the sound tube delete.

There’s lots of opinions out there about catch cans. Is my setup right or wrong don’t no put after reading a lot,”this my set up.” The thing I take away from reading is a performance car like the Camaro needs one but the factory doesn’t put one on because they no most customers will not empty the catch can.

Side note: the second catch can/oil separater I got had the worst design lid and bracket but the unit itself was very good other then that. I had to purchase a Moroso bracket to properly mount the unit where I wanted it to be. I am not here to trash all the different catch cans out there. There are ones that are out there that are better then others.