[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

The Z07 is the perfect comparison. Chevy doesn't do stuff like that for Camaro but they do for Corvette. Z07 package on Z06, Z07 Package on Grand Sport and IIRC didn't the ZR-1 have a few different aerodynamic packages that would effect performance

I see what you are saying but having an optional package to make to make a model even more track focused for the people who intend to use it as such is a good thing IMO

The zr1 "track focused" pack is called the ztk, has the big wing sort of like a 1le/z07 zr1.

God bless GM nomenclature!

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I agree, thats where the Mach 1 is different. It's got all the cooling.

the Mach Handling package is similar to the Z07. Just makes it better than it is

Yea I didn't hate on it, I like it. I just said I wouldn't like a "fake" 1le.. which would also make no sense since the 1le is an option anyways. Why make a lesset version of the option.

I do think compared to the 1le's or Ford "track packs" the z07 packages are fairly tame with mostly everything being the same except the tires and carbon brake options.... the aero can be had in non z07 package cars.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Yea I didn't hate on it, I like it. I just said I wouldn't like a "fake" 1le.. which would also make no sense since the 1le is an option anyways. Why make a lesset version of the option.

I do think compared to the 1le's or Ford "track packs" the z07 packages are fairly tame with mostly everything being the same except the tires and carbon brake options.... the aero can be had in non z07 package cars.

Isn't the suspension different as well in the Z07 package?

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Mountain

I find this odd, in that the GM version is available on all "track-capable" Camaros. This tells me that either the cooling on the Mustang Mach 1 is not fully optimized to for the automatic with the Handling Package or the car does not meet durability targets when in track conditions with higher grip tires (the Ford version of the A10 has some slightly different internals).

From my reading the Mach 1 is as follows:
Base Mach 1
-Available exterior colors of Iconic Silver, Shadow Black, Oxford White, Velocity Blue, Twister Orange and Race Red (specific, additional exterior colors of Grabber Yellow and Fighter Jet Grey)
-Available Mach 1 appearance packages
-Performance-optimized front fascia (fog light holes blocked off, but plates removable for extra cooling to the EOC and TOC)
-Front brake cooling ducts-Tremec 3160 M6 (w/GT350 shifter) or 10R80 auto (w/ upgraded converter and shift logic)
-Front splitter (larger than PP1)
-PP2 rear spoiler
-Underbelly pan (w/ additional brake cooling; larger than GT PP1/PP2)
-Mustang Bullitt 5.0L Coyote
-M6 active rev-matching
-GT350 EOC system
-GT500 DOC (and rear fascia)
-Auxiliary TOC (M6 gets one and A10 gets one - total two: M6 one + by radiator)
-PP1/PP2 Radiator
-Performance EPAS calibration
-Stiffened steering intermediate shaft
-PP1/PP2 Strut tower brace
-PP1/PP2 K-Brace
-MRC (w/ new performance calibrations)
-Stiffer front springs (than?)
-Stiffer sway bars (than?)
-Stiffer rear cradle bushings
-GT500 rear toe link
-PP2 brake system (rotors, calipers and booster)
-19x9.5" front, 19x10" rear wheels
-255(?) front, 275(?) rear Michelin Pilot Sport 4s tires

HP Mach 1
-Larger front splitter (larger than PP2)
-GT500 rear S-Wing (w/ Gurney flap)
-Tire spats/wheel well arch moldings
-GT350/GT500 Adjustable top mounts (supposedly)
-19x10.5" front, 19x11" rear wheels
-305 front and 315 rear Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 "FR" tires
-Supporting re-calibrations for HP components



https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...ustang-mach-1/
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021...hotos-details/
https://www.motortrend.com/features-...etails-photos/
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/06/16/...-shelby-parts/
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...ch-1-revealed/
https://www.steeda.com/2021-mustang-mach-1-specs

This is what I was getting at with Shaffe, seems like the tremec mach1 will have the gt350 trans cooler and the a10 will just have a trans cooler.. I assume the gt350 trans cooler is more effective and has more capability. Therefor the heady duty track version will only come in manual due to better cooling.

That or Ford is like me and doesn't think slush boxes are track worthy transmissions lol

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Isn't the suspension different as well in the Z07 package?

Tuned slightly different, but both have the same mag ride components and geometry.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

This is what I was getting at with Shaffe, seems like the tremec mach1 will have the gt350 trans cooler and the a10 will just have a trans cooler.. I assume the gt350 trans cooler is more effective and has more capability. Therefor the heady duty track version will only come in manual due to better cooling.

That or Ford is like me and doesn't think slush boxes are track worthy transmissions lol

Got ya, yeah looks like the tremec itself has an additional cooler, not part of the handling pack though

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

From Ford's press release

?

Just noticed per the press release that while all mach 1s will have cooling perhaps it wont be of the same capacity.

Says there the tremec equiped car will have the gt350s trans oil cooler, so while the a10 may have a trans cooler it does not say specifically it'll be the gt350s trans cooler like it does for the m6 and perhaps it's not as capable of a unit.

So it might not be a thing where the track pack has better cooling, but the m6 has better cooling and therefore the track version has to be the m6 version with suitable cooling for track duty. What say you?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Just noticed per the press release that while all mach 1s will have cooling perhaps it wont be of the same capacity.

Says there the tremec equiped car will have the gt350s trans oil cooler, so while the a10 may have a trans cooler it does not say specifically it'll be the gt350s trans cooler like it does for the m6 and perhaps it's not as capable of a unit.

So it might not be a thing where the track pack has better cooling, but the m6 has better cooling and therefore the track version has to be the m6 version with suitable cooling for track duty. What say you?

I think I would have to agree with that statement. All I was saying was all Mach 1s are going to have engine coolers, trans coolers, diff coolers. regardless of handling pack or not

Just looks like the cooler on the M6 will be/should be more efficient.

Dumb question but would a cooler designed for the Tremec even work on an auto trans?

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I think I would have to agree with that statement. All I was saying was all Mach 1s are going to have engine coolers, trans coolers, diff coolers. regardless of handling pack or not

Just looks like the cooler on the M6 will be/should be more efficient.

Dumb question but would a cooler designed for the Tremec even work on an auto trans?

I didn't say otherwise as fact, wasn't sure but remember some small discrepancy from what I had read.

I would imagine so but maybe they just wanted to stick to the parts bin and not have to redesign the gt350s to adapt to the a10. Would be my guess.

For personal preferance reasons I do love that Ford has kept some things manual trans exclusive now that GM has caved with auto 1le's. It seems the gt350 may be dying off but it will go out true to itself as an m6 only car. Can't think of any manual trans only car out there besides the gt350.... almost makes me forgive the gt500 being auto only lol.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I would be mad, it would be a fake 1le. GM guys don't tend to accept incomplete vehicles. I'm boderline mad they offer it in poser auotmatic now lol... but end of the day the 1le is just a performance pack not a seperate model, and the base model is already pretty capable unlike the mustang GT which needs a seperate model in the mach to have true track capability.

Chevy does the "track pack" thing too, they just call it 1le and z07 packages, only difference is that the base versions of said cars are already plenty capable. Those packages just kick them up a notch. Not saying the base mach 1 isn't capable but Ford is known for this, non pp mustangs are not very track capable and the early non track pack gt350s weren't either.

And before someone says some of the c7 z06s overheated, it wasn't by design and was later rectified.

At the end of the day more models and options are better even if the likes of me don't like the watered down versions lol.

Re: the bolded portion: but who cares? The base GT isn't supposed to be a track car. It's a cool car with a powerful engine that people want to drive. Too many around here act like having a base model that isn't a track car is a detriment. It's not. Having options is a good thing.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Re: the bolded portion: but who cares? The base GT isn't supposed to be a track car. It's a cool car with a powerful engine that people want to drive. Too many around here act like having a base model that isn't a track car is a detriment. It's not. Having options is a good thing.

The crowds at Cars and Coffee would care a lot, LOL.

OK seriously, I guess that's why Chevy learned and decided to add the LT1 trim.

Some people don't need the track capability and the reduced price puts more people in reach of the car.

Sent from toaster or something

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Re: the bolded portion: but who cares? The base GT isn't supposed to be a track car. It's a cool car with a powerful engine that people want to drive. Too many around here act like having a base model that isn't a track car is a detriment. It's not. Having options is a good thing.

The people involved in the current convo do and people who like comparing cars to their rivals, so pretty much everyone in the VS sub forum... not the Ford fanboys that come to white knight for the mustang..

Though in the base GT's defense the pp1 and pp2 aren't all that track capable either.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

The people involved in the current convo do and people who like comparing cars to their rivals, so pretty much everyone in the VS sub forum.... not the Ford fanboys that come to white knight for the mustang.

Though in the base GT's defense the pp1 and pp2 aren't all that track capable either.

That’s why the Mach I is a bigger deal than some are accepting it as. It will be faster than any GT, including PP1 and 2. It will be more track capable than PP2 and better on track than the S197 Boss. It will outperform any S550 Mustang that’s not called Shelby in every measurable attribute. Those are pretty decent accomplishments.

When you look at all the S550 PP2 and Bullitt complaints, Mach I fixes pretty much all of them.

Bullitt:

• That transmission. Mach I gets the Tremec to replace the Getrag MT82

PP2:

• That transmission. Mach I gets the Tremec to replace the Getrag MT82
• No coolers? Really? Mach I gets all the coolers. Engine, Trans, Diff
• Why can’t I get a 10AT? Mach I gets a 10AT option

Plus there are GT350 suspension bits added to both flavors of Mach I and even the (s)wing added to the handling package. I think Ford did good with this one. Worth the price? We’ll know when we know the price.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

That’s why the Mach I is a bigger deal than some are accepting it as. It will be faster than any GT, including PP1 and 2. It will be more track capable than PP2 and better on track than the S197 Boss. It will outperform any S550 Mustang that’s not called Shelby in every measurable attribute. Those are pretty decent accomplishments.

When you look at all the S550 PP2 and Bullitt complaints, Mach I fixes pretty much all of them.

Bullitt:

• That transmission. Mach I gets the Tremec to replace the Getrag MT82

PP2:

• That transmission. Mach I gets the Tremec to replace the Getrag MT82
• No coolers? Really? Mach I gets all the coolers. Engine, Trans, Diff
• Why can’t I get a 10AT? Mach I gets a 10AT option

Plus there are GT350 suspension bits added to both flavors of Mach I and even the (s)wing added to the handling package. I think Ford did good with this one. Worth the price? We’ll know when we know the price.

I am a fan of the mach 1, it's getting a lot of hate and idk why (even from the Mustang community). Even the new gt350 esque grill on the 18+ head lights looks great. Best looking front end next to the gt350 imo.

As a manual trans diehard, the tremec alone is a big deal and something I wish will trickled down to all 5.0s. We recently got a 19 GT pp1 and I would definately trade if the tr3160 became standard equipment on GTs... Probably not for mach 1 money though lol.

The mach 1 should outperform any 5.0 on track, and if not by a considerable numerical amount it should be more appreciable in its staying power and durablity on track for sure.

I am curious to see how it compares to a GT pp1 in straight line speed though. Will the 20 extra hp offset what I assume will be more weight/drag from the extra coolers and track goodies? Because it didn't do the Bullit much good. Will the tr3160s more aggressive gearing make a noticeable impact vs the current mt82? That's an interesting one, the gt350 was not all that much faster than a pp GT m6 with quite a bit more hp, but the 5.0 is a torquier engine which in my opinion can be favorable for a manual vehicle. Also will the ratios be tweaked from the gt350s tr3160 that had an extra 700 rpm to play with? That will affect shift point speeds, so while it should pull harder than an mt82 car it would also be busier.

The mach 1 should be quicker but it'll be interesting to see how it plays out in a straightline, we already know it'll be much more impressive on track.