[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

ZL1 with a 1LE package?

I recall both 1LEs being revealed separately and in the model year following the car they were based on. Both were clearly differentiated with performance that separated them from the SS or ZL1.

The SS didn’t run a 2:54.8 lighting lap in 2017. The SS 1LE did.

[crysalis_01]

I believe that that states 1LE Package. Are you equating package with trim level?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

I believe that that states 1LE Package. Are you equating package with trim level?

The entirety of the point I was making is that the 1LE wasn't and asterisk on the SS. Lumped together with the headline reading the SS* is the...

* requires 1LE package with...

The 1LEs had their own introduction and were evaluated on their own

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by hotlap

You make a good point with the Z07 comparison.

It always strikes me as off to have a track car with a track package. Camaro doesn’t have any of that.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

ZL1 with a 1LE package?

Originally Posted by hotlap

I recall both 1LEs being revealed separately and in the model year following the car they were based on. Both were clearly differentiated with performance that separated them from the SS or ZL1.

The SS didn’t run a 2:54.8 lighting lap in 2017. The SS 1LE did.

I get that, but I was just pointing out that the ZL1 --> ZL1 1LE is the Camaro parallel to Z06 --> Z06 Z07. The ZL1 and Z06 are both track cars and the 1LE option and Z07 option are cherries on top of some pretty tasty ice cream.

I specifically don't call out the SS --> SS 1LE because even though the SS has all the necessary coolers it is pretty much considered "track capable" as opposed to "track focused". The 1LE option is what makes it track focused.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

How’s is starting at $50,000 for a Base mach1 keeping the price down? You will need to get Recaros, handling package, and I’m sure the entertainment package that will have certain items that everyone wants, but will need to buy. This option out on what come stock on a 1le will be near $60,000

It will be very interesting to see what the price comes in at. I keep using the Bullitt as my base. The Bullitt was damn near fully loaded with all the tech gadgets 12" LCD screen etc and starts at 48.9.

It had an option for electronics that was premium audio, memory seats, nav for 2K. The Mach 1 is essentially a Bullitt Replacement - in theory it should be priced similarly but who the hell knows

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

You make a good point with the Z07 comparison.

It always strikes me as off to have a track car with a track package. Camaro doesn’t have any of that.

The Z07 is the perfect comparison. Chevy doesn't do stuff like that for Camaro but they do for Corvette. Z07 package on Z06, Z07 Package on Grand Sport and IIRC didn't the ZR-1 have a few different aerodynamic packages that would effect performance

I see what you are saying but having an optional package to make to make a model even more track focused for the people who intend to use it as such is a good thing IMO

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Ford does the handling pack thing a lot. Just like the base gt500 also has a handling pack option and the original gt350s had the track packs with coolers. Track pack just makes the mach 1 better with better aero and probably better tires too.

There's no mt82 equipped mach 1. The track pack can only be had with the tremec and the non track pack can have either the tremec or a10.

I would asusme Ford doesn't see the 10r80 as the optimal track trans. Maybe their calibration of tha a10 couldn't produce better times than the a10 or maybe the a10 is harder to keep cool during extended track sessions.

I find this odd, in that the GM version is available on all "track-capable" Camaros. This tells me that either the cooling on the Mustang Mach 1 is not fully optimized to for the automatic with the Handling Package or the car does not meet durability targets when in track conditions with higher grip tires (the Ford version of the A10 has some slightly different internals).

From my reading the Mach 1 is as follows:
Base Mach 1
-Available exterior colors of Iconic Silver, Shadow Black, Oxford White, Velocity Blue, Twister Orange and Race Red (specific, additional exterior colors of Grabber Yellow and Fighter Jet Grey)
-Available Mach 1 appearance packages
-Performance-optimized front fascia (fog light holes blocked off, but plates removable for extra cooling to the EOC and TOC)
-Front brake cooling ducts-Tremec 3160 M6 (w/GT350 shifter) or 10R80 auto (w/ upgraded converter and shift logic)
-Front splitter (larger than PP1)
-PP2 rear spoiler
-Underbelly pan (w/ additional brake cooling; larger than GT PP1/PP2)
-Mustang Bullitt 5.0L Coyote
-M6 active rev-matching
-GT350 EOC system
-GT500 DOC (and rear fascia)
-Auxiliary TOC (M6 gets one and A10 gets one - total two: M6 one + by radiator)
-PP1/PP2 Radiator
-Performance EPAS calibration
-Stiffened steering intermediate shaft
-PP1/PP2 Strut tower brace
-PP1/PP2 K-Brace
-MRC (w/ new performance calibrations)
-Stiffer front springs (than?)
-Stiffer sway bars (than?)
-Stiffer rear cradle bushings
-GT500 rear toe link
-PP2 brake system (rotors, calipers and booster)
-19x9.5" front, 19x10" rear wheels
-255(?) front, 275(?) rear Michelin Pilot Sport 4s tires

HP Mach 1
-Larger front splitter (larger than PP2)
-GT500 rear S-Wing (w/ Gurney flap)
-Tire spats/wheel well arch moldings
-GT350/GT500 Adjustable top mounts (supposedly)
-19x10.5" front, 19x11" rear wheels
-305 front and 315 rear Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 "FR" tires
-Supporting re-calibrations for HP components

The team resisted the urge to include ram-air scoops or shaker hood elements popular on past Mach 1 editions—opting instead for functional air extractors toward the front of the hood.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...ustang-mach-1/
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021...hotos-details/
https://www.motortrend.com/features-...etails-photos/
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/06/16/...-shelby-parts/
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...ch-1-revealed/
https://www.steeda.com/2021-mustang-mach-1-specs

[metros11]

It feels like this is the GT350 without the VooDoo. Not sure if that's a good or a bad thing. Great looking car, and nicely packaged, but again, not competitively priced against the 1LE. Most will pay for the Mach badge alone, so it will sell. Will be interesting to see head to head on track comparison, if Ford allows it.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Just playing devils advocate. Because all Mach-1s will have all the cooling needed, they are the most powerful 5.0s that by default makes them most track capable 5.0s. The pp1 and pp2 are not track capable, the Mach 1 is so by default the statement is correct.

If your scenario was the same as what Ford is doing I would agree but it is different. All the handling pack adds is different wheels, super aggressive tires and some different aero bits. If the handling pack also added the coolers and all that other stuff I would 100% agree with you.

If you just wanted the car ( lets be honest a good amount of people buy those trims because it looks great/is the best of what fits their budget with no track intent ever people do it with 1LE, PP GT350, hellcat whatever) why shoe horn every buyer into aggressive tires that aren't great on the street? I think offering that in a package is a smart move.

Answer my question I asked you, would you be mad if they offered a aggressive tire/aero option for the 1LE? That would not take away from the 1LE's trackability it would only enhance it to those that actually track it

I could be wrong since there was a lot of info released but I was under the impression the track pack tremec would have some sort of cooling over the non track pack.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Just playing devils advocate. Because all Mach-1s will have all the cooling needed, they are the most powerful 5.0s that by default makes them most track capable 5.0s. The pp1 and pp2 are not track capable, the Mach 1 is so by default the statement is correct.

If your scenario was the same as what Ford is doing I would agree but it is different. All the handling pack adds is different wheels, super aggressive tires and some different aero bits. If the handling pack also added the coolers and all that other stuff I would 100% agree with you.

If you just wanted the car ( lets be honest a good amount of people buy those trims because it looks great/is the best of what fits their budget with no track intent ever people do it with 1LE, PP GT350, hellcat whatever) why shoe horn every buyer into aggressive tires that aren't great on the street? I think offering that in a package is a smart move.

Answer my question I asked you, would you be mad if they offered a aggressive tire/aero option for the 1LE? That would not take away from the 1LE's trackability it would only enhance it to those that actually track it

I would be mad, it would be a fake 1le. GM guys don't tend to accept incomplete vehicles. I'm boderline mad they offer it in poser auotmatic now lol... but end of the day the 1le is just a performance pack not a seperate model, and the base model is already pretty capable unlike the mustang GT which needs a seperate model in the mach to have true track capability.

Chevy does the "track pack" thing too, they just call it 1le and z07 packages, only difference is that the base versions of said cars are already plenty capable. Those packages just kick them up a notch. Not saying the base mach 1 isn't capable but Ford is known for this, non pp mustangs are not very track capable and the early non track pack gt350s weren't either.

And before someone says some of the c7 z06s overheated, it wasn't by design and was later rectified.

At the end of the day more models and options are better even if the likes of me don't like the watered down versions lol.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I could be wrong since there was a lot of info released but I was under the impression the track pack tremec would have some sort of cooling over the non track pack.

From Ford's press release

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Return of the Mach! Limited-Edition Mach 1 is Pinnacle of Mustang 5.0-Liter V8 Style and Performance • 480 horsepower limited-edition Mach 1 sets a new standard of 5.0-liter V8 track-ready performance in the Mustang lineup while celebrating original model’s aggressive aerodynamic and handling enhancements

• Six-speed manual transmission from Ford Performance and an available 10-speed automatic transmission provides capability on and off the track; available Handling Package delivers even more on-track

• Exterior styling cues include a new front fascia and grilles for both improved cooling and aerodynamics; low-gloss magnetic and black accents as well as hood and side-body stripes with reflective surfaces celebrate Mach 1 heritage dating back more than five decades


DEARBORN, Mich., June 16, 2020 – After a 17-year hiatus, the all-new Mustang Mach 1 fastback coupe makes its world premiere – becoming the modern pinnacle of style, handling and 5.0-liter V-8 pony car performance.

“Bold styling, great acceleration and speed – Mach 1 says it all,” said Jim Farley, Ford’s chief operating officer. “This is one of those special Mustangs that truly brings a smile to the faces of our owners, enthusiasts and fans – including me – so there’s never been a better time to bring back Mach 1 and have it go global too.”

Ford’s quest for speed began with Henry Ford in 1901 and the company’s roots within aerospace only furthered its desire to deliver quicker, faster and more powerful vehicles. Calling back Chuck Yeager’s feat becoming the first to break the sound barrier – Mach 1 – Ford delivered its original Mach 1 in 1969, setting 295 speed and endurance records in its first model year at the Bonneville Salt Flats. Thanks to its added handling capability, Mach 1 teams earned back-to-back SCCA Manufacturer’s Rally Championships in 1969 and 1970.

Like the original, the all-new Mach 1 bridges the gap between Mustang GT and Shelby® models, delivering V-8 power, unique functional aerodynamic enhancements, competition-capable suspension upgrades and a driver-focused cockpit.

All-new Mach 1 muscle The all-new Mustang Mach 1 becomes the most track-capable 5.0-liter Mustang ever, courtesy of a newly designed front end, plus Ford Performance parts from Mustang Shelby GT350 and Shelby GT500 models and an available Handling Package for greater at-limit handling.

Packing a specially calibrated 5.0-liter V8 engine that produces 480 horsepower at 7,000 rpm and 420 lb.-ft. of torque at 4,600 rpm, Mach 1 is a fitting celebration of a nameplate born more than 50 years ago.



For news releases, related materials and high-resolution photos and video, visit www.media.ford.com.

2
Integrated into the Mach 1 engine are revised Shelby GT350 components including the intake manifold, oil filter adapter and engine oil cooler, increasing engine oil cooling capability by 50 percent.

The all-new version leans on decades of Ford Performance learnings, wearing a uniquely crafted front end for aerodynamic efficiency and a host of Ford Performance parts that help celebrate its iconic heritage. Mach 1 comes standard with a Tremec™ 3160 6-speed manual transmission from the Shelby GT350. For the first time, Ford has outfitted the system with revmatching and the transmission is paired with the GT350 oil cooler system and Mustang GT’s twin-disc clutch and short-throw shifter.

Drivers can also opt for an available 10-speed SelectShift™ automatic transmission with an upgraded torque converter and unique calibration that enables optimizing torque capability, shift character and overall enhanced performance. A second air-to-oil cooler increases cooling capacity by 75 percent.

Recapturing Mach 1 style The all-new Mach 1’s grille harkens back to the original with a deep 3-D mesh, shark-nosed section and faux lamp elements. Flanking the fascia are new side grilles below each turn signal lamp. A low-gloss Magnetic pony badge is centered on the grille. Low-gloss magnetic and black accents throughout the vehicle provide a premium look while staying true to Mach 1’s bold, muscular heritage, including low-gloss Magnetic mirror caps and rear spoiler.

New 19-inch x 9.5-inch, and 19-inch x 10-inch five-spoke Tarnished Dark-painted aluminum wheels are a modern version of the classic Magnum 500 style wheels. Handling Package vehicles come standard with unique, wider 19-inch x 10.5-inch front, and 19-inch x 11-inch rear Tarnished Dark-painted aluminum wheels.

The Handling Package – exclusively available with the Tremec™ 3160 6-speed manual transmission – also includes a larger unique higher downforce front splitter, new front wheel lip moldings, and a low-gloss Magnetic swing spoiler with a Gurney flap and rear tire spats from Shelby GT500.

Satin Black side and hood stripes are included with reflective accent stripes in any of three colors: Red, White and Orange (Appearance Package only). Exterior color options include the Mach 1 exclusive Fighter Jet Gray (Appearance Package only), as well as Iconic Silver, Shadow Black, Oxford White, Velocity Blue, Twister Orange, Race Red and Grabber Yellow.

The interior features a unique Dark Spindrift instrument panel with aluminum accents. Ebony seats with an accent stripe hint at Mach 1 heritage in cars equipped with a leather interior. Other interior upgrades include new door sill plates, an updated splash screen on the 12.3-inch allLCD instrument cluster, a white cue ball shift knob, and engraved badging that displays the vehicle’s unique chassis number.

Mach 1: Built to perform The Mach 1 engineering and design teams worked in tandem to develop a front end unique to the Mach 1 persona that also meets the high aerodynamic demands of the engine, transmission and braking systems.




For news releases, related materials and high-resolution photos and video, visit www.media.ford.com.

3
A new two-piece upper grille, lower grille and valance, and new side grilles, all contribute to Mach 1’s signature look and more demanding aero and cooling performance requirements.

A front splitter optimized to the fascia shape improves track performance and provides a more aggressive appearance, while a matched rear spoiler works in concert to create ideal lift balance. Mach 1 features 22 percent more downforce than a Mustang GT with Performance Pack Level 1 and the downforce improvement jumps to approximately 150 percent with the Handling Package.

To enhance track endurance, the team added two side heat exchangers – one to cool engine oil, the other transmission oil – as well as a rear axle cooling system and lower diffuser from Shelby GT500.

A new underbelly pan, the vehicle’s most aerodynamically important upgrade, extends 20 inches further rearward than on a Mustang GT Performance Pack to smooth and increase the airflow under the front of the car. Large underwing features in the belly pan increase downforce, while special belly pan airfoils in the brake cooling ramps improve downforce and assist the brake cooling flow – a first for Mustang.

To improve ride and handling, Mach 1 features the latest MagneRide calibration, a stiffer steering I-shaft, new EPAS calibration, stiffer sway bars and front springs, a brake booster from the Mustang GT Performance Pack Level 2, 9.5-inch/10-inch split fitment wheels with Michelin PS4 tires, a rear subframe with stiffer bushings and a rear toe-link from Shelby GT500.

The all-new and limited-edition 2021 Mustang Mach 1 will arrive in U.S. and Canadian Ford dealerships in the spring of 2021.

All Mach 1s have all the cooling. the Handling pack just adds aero bits, wheels tires, and other misc stuff. No extra coolers for the handling pack. At least that is the way I read it.

From MT
"Upgrading to the Handling package, offered only with the Tremec manual transmission, buys the basic 20-inch wheel/tire specification from the Shelby GT350 (10.5-inch front, 11.0-inch rear), with dark tarnish web-mesh design wheels wearing Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 meats. Also included are unique wheel lip moldings (to cover the larger tires), the GT500's rear tire spats, plus numerous aerodynamic upgrades."

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I would be mad, it would be a fake 1le. GM guys don't tend to accept incomplete vehicles. I'm boderline mad they offer it in poser auotmatic now lol.

And before someone says some of the c7 z06s overheated, it wasn't by design and was later rectified.

As mentioned previously is Z06 without the ZO7 package incomplete? or the Grand Sport without the Z07 package? Or the ZR1 with out the track performance package?

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

ZL1 with a 1LE package?

While the 1le is a performance pack option its different than the z06 in that its not just a slight suspension tuning and tire change, it's considerably different different equipment than the base with the elsd in the ss and the dssv's and extreme aero in the zl1. Though the z07 pack does bring the carbon brakes.

So while the 1le is just a performance pack, it does elevate things more than the z07 pack imo, with considerable equipment changes.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

From Ford's press release




All Mach 1s have all the cooling. the Handling pack just adds aero bits, wheels tires, and other misc stuff. No extra coolers for the handling pack. At least that is the way I read it.



As mentioned previously is Z06 without the ZO7 package incomplete? or the Grand Sport without the Z07 package? Or the ZR1 with out the track performance package?

Not at all, a base z06/gs/zr1 is plenty capable unlike a base mustang GT or non track pack early gt350.

Also I edited my message before you quoted it discussing the z07 lol.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Not at all, a base z06/gs/zr1 is plenty capable unlike a base mustang GT or non track pack early gt350.

I agree, thats where the Mach 1 is different. It's got all the cooling.

the Mach Handling package is similar to the Z07. Just makes it better than it is