[v8]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

Flow in the system is constant assuming the restrictor is placed before the can. If it's installed on the clean side, now you're now playing with multiple variables (assuming dual line set-up Elite is using). I will probably relocate the can to the front to reduce hose length, otherwise Jason explained it well in my opinion. Putting the restrictor under the blower keeps excessive oil from getting sucked into the intake line to the can.

If you want more flow you need a bigger can, that's the problem - there's really no place to put it.

This is not true at all, flow comes from vacuum from the throttle body on all systems no matter how they are hooked up, and is variable. Going by your belief, if flow was always constant they why would you even need the secondary line? The system would constantly evacuate on the primary line.

The restrictor is designed to LIMIT MAXIMUM flow, but will also effect minimum flow, when more is wanted (below the maximum amount). Placement of the restrictor prior to the throttle body is all that matters. The system can't flow more than the restrictor will let it. The only variable by hooking it up my way is the secondary line is unrestricted now, and the primary line is more efficient.

We could get into pressure drop before and after the restrictor, but I don't think it makes a big difference, at least on the flow volume of the LT4. If anything, I believe my way would be more efficient as the can would be under the same vacuum as the engine block where in the other way the hose and can are under higher vacuum. The actual flow is the same. This of it like the flow in an AC system where you have high and low pressure side. Now I can tell I'm getting too technical, and maybe a white board might be good here LOL

I believe placing the restrictor on the clean side is more efficient. You have to remember its a closed system with the flow limited by the restrictor, you can't flow more than the restrictor will allow, even the mightymouse has a restrictor so flow is limited, the difference in the mightymouse is instead of having a secondary line, it just vents when there is any pressure that can't be evacuated by the primary line. Now I can't comment about how much oil it traps, but that would more can design and the fact there is no secondary line, it would not be because of restrictor placement.

So basically all systems limit flow, and you can only make it more efficient by removing tubing (and by placing the restrictor on the clean side mimics this)

You say " Putting the restrictor under the blower keeps excessive oil from getting sucked into the intake line to the can. " Just not true, I am sorry, but this is not true.


No, there are two ways, you can increase flow through the can (providing the can is capable of handling it), or get a bigger can, on our camaro there are multiple manufacturers with different sized cans installed, and they all have the same flow as they all have a restrictor. Some are more efficient that others due to can design (Elite has one of the best designs and I have said this before)

Dragsters have a vacuum pump to increase flow, you could put a gigantic can on it, but it still would not work properly without an external vacuum pump as the flow requirement is high.

So it is size of can and flow. On our LT4, if the Elite was maxed out with a stock build, then is it not efficient when you put a pulley and tune on your car?

I don't think the Elite can is maxed out at 3.5CFM, I can't say for sure, only Elite can comment if the EX-2 can is maxed out at 3.5CFM. Personally I don't think it is. So for a bigger build on the LT4 you increase flow, you don't need a bigger can unless you get really crazy.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by v8

This is not true at all

You misunderstood - Q through the system is constant at any given time. I don't see the benefit of installing the restrictor as shown in your video unless you plan to install a larger can in the future

You say " Putting the restrictor under the blower keeps excessive oil from getting sucked into the intake line to the can. " Just not true, I am sorry, but this is not true.

Sure it is - full port 3/8" flow will allow excessive flow into the can. The volume of the can is too small to manage the increased velocity, so it will just get recycled to the intake or drop out somewhere you don't want it. Separator tanks are always sized by velocity

there are two ways, you can increase flow through the can (providing the can is capable of handling it)

But it isn't, Elite already settled that

or get a bigger can, on our camaro there are multiple manufacturers with different sized cans installed, and they all have the same flow as they all have a restrictor.

But again, there isn't much room in the engine bay for a significantly larger can, we already addressed this issue.

Who says they *all* have a restrictor, have you worked on *all*? No, you haven't

I don't think the Elite can is maxed out at 3.5CFM, I can't say for sure

This is why debating you is a waste of time, it's kind of a futile do loop, you just like to hear yourself talk. Even in your video you say "you don't know for sure" - what good is that? You love to speculate and pass yourself off as a catch can expert but you seem more like a shadetree Canadian "mechanic"

[Chris 2018 ZL1 A10]

Fellas,

I have the greatest respect for the collective knowledge that exits on this forum, knowledge that is willingly shared for the greater good of guys like me, who likely will never possess your high level of understanding. I would therefore respectfully ask that we do our best to politely agree to disagree when different opinions emerge.

Happy Memorial Day,
Chris

[v8]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

You misunderstood - Q through the system is constant at any given time. I don't see the benefit of installing the restrictor as shown in your video unless you plan to install a larger can in the future

"I see your line of thinking here"

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

Sure it is - full port 3/8" flow will allow excessive flow into the can. The volume of the can is too small to manage the increased velocity, so it will just get recycled to the intake or drop out somewhere you don't want it. Separator tanks are always sized by velocity

"No, it's not true, and you are even contradicting yourself. If you say Q is constant then who cares where the restrictor goes?

The 3/8" flow has to exit somewhere and we can't flow what a 3/8" hose would flow, if its stopped at the restrictor. That's the point you are missing. What if you used the 3/8" full port but plugged the clean side line at the throttle body? You would not flow anything even though you have a 3/8" full port. It has to exit. If you were blowing though a straw, would it matter if it had a restrictor at the beginning or end? It would still flow the same, its just you have move the area where the pressure drop occurs."

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

But it isn't, Elite already settled that

"I did not know that the Elite EX-2 can was maxed out at 3.5 CFM, I missed that somewhere and apologize for that. I would appreciate if you could point out where that was"

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

But again, there isn't much room in the engine bay for a significantly larger can, we already addressed this issue.

Who says they *all* have a restrictor, have you worked on *all*? No, you haven't

"We can made an inference they are all restricted in some way. For most cans, probably 99% the PCV valve is left in place and that is the restrictor, it is our LT4 that is unique. If you didn't restrict the system you would have serious problems and I doubt the can would operate for long. "

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

This is why debating you is a waste of time, it's kind of a futile do loop, you just like to hear yourself talk. Even in your video you say "you don't know for sure" - what good is that? You love to speculate and pass yourself off as a catch can expert but you seem more like a shadetree Canadian "mechanic"

"The reason I said I was unsure in my vid is I was referring to the pressure drop and whether it really matters on what side of the can the pressure drop occurs, because I am not %100 sure, and you know no one is, because no one has provided any proof of this. If there is any proof please let me know. You took that out of context. Also I don't like to hear myself talk, as I like to read other posts, listen to other ideas, and learn. These long responses take time, but I was trying to explain something you are not understanding, and you are spreading false information by saying a fully ported 3/8" hose with a 1/8" restrictor on the other side of the can will flow what a 3/8" hose should flow right through the can and out. That's the point you are missing. People are being honest if they say they are unsure, I don't know everything or pretend to know, but I like to learn through scientific testing and research papers, and through educated posts on this forum.

I have been nothing but polite in my posts, its a shame you have something against Canadian mechanics. I guess you have a bias, and you should be aware of that. I'm sorry you feel that way. And I'm not pretending to be a catch can expert at all, when did we start talking about catch can design?

@chris 2018 LZ1 A10 said it best that we should all be polite. Without different opinions this forum would be really boring. This thread has generated very good discussion and have people thinking, that's a good thing.

[ZX-10R]

From Elite's most recent post, anything beyond this is speculation right now

First, the MM will allow far too much flow so it will actually allow more oil to be pulled from the crankcase. The proper flow for a V8 sized crankcase is 3-3.5 CFM, and that's why our fixed orifice is slightly larger than stock to achieve the proper flow. You NEVER want to allow full vacuum flow on the crankcase as this pulls in excessive oil. And as the MM is such an inefficient internal design and only traps a small amount vs what enters it, you are doing little to prevent KR from oil mist. But as they work under the assumption that allowing pressure to build and vent, it is probably needed to avoid seal failures. This will also play havoc with short term fuel trims as far more air is entering than is expected. We want to control the rate of flow as the industry has determined. No assumptions here like others. Science only.


As for the user with the JLT, that can allows far more to pass through than it traps

[v8]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

From Elite's most recent post, anything beyond this is speculation right now

You can believe this if you want, or whatever you want.

Elite is right that no system should have full flow (the way I hooked mine up it has 3-3.5cfm) But to be fair I would say Mightymouse would have to comment on their design and airflow characteristics, as they know their product best. I mean you could go to the Ford dealer, and buy a Ford because they tell you it's better than a Chevy.

I'm not in the business of selling catch cans, but I have done a lot of research so to dismiss what I have learned would be foolish for me, so my opinions are unbiased, and if they generate positive discussion thats great, we are all here to learn, and walk away feeling good.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by v8

You can believe this if you want

It's not about belief, it's about facts. Elite has demonstrated the performance of their can - the end.

[BlueinTN]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

From Elite's most recent post, anything beyond this is speculation right now

Actually I always thought catch cans pulled MORE oil thru at the incorrect times making it look like "my catch can is full I must be doing something".


I argued this on Challengertalk but never went any where.

[Elite Engineering]

Just to clarify, putting the flow restrictor in the cleanside negates the fail safe function that IF you would sustain a pinched ringland or other breach in the piston/ring/cylinder seal, this unrestricted path from the main intake tube will allow excessive pressure to vent backwards from the crankcase, out the cleanside, which filters and contains a certain amount of oil but would release pressure into the intake tube retaining an emissions compliant system. The fixed orifice will maintain as close to a 3.5 CFM of flow possible, even though vacuum may vary from zero to 20-13" depending on operating mode. If we put it in the vacuum line leading to the crankcase instead of the evacuation line, then as the vacuum drops low enough we will fall below the ability to maintain proper flow. The secondary suction source will range between 2-8" of vacuum. Not as much as is ideal, but it is sufficient to continue evacuation at close to the proper rate.


As for the MM cans, I don't think anyone has done more study and testing of every possible "catchcan" design than we have, and let's get someone to step forward and actually take the "catchcan Challenge" that is running a MM can and in a dedicated thread cover each step of the test with pictures and accurate measurements like in this thread:
https://themustangsource.com/forums/...rt-2-a-532449/



And this test is accurate and fair to all involved, but it MUST be an honest and ethical person willing to commit. This takes at least a month on average to conduct, and there is no more accurate way to conduct the test. Here are the details, and again, we ask for NO scammers like the last time where MM had someone get the can and never tested it. Filled it with epoxy and then ran a video of a flow test. AFTER they filled the chambers with epoxy.


So, here is how it is conducted, and why this MUST be done as equally as possible.


First, both cans must start clean of all residue. Easy as each comes apart. Install our E2-X in series AFTER the MM can. Could not be simpler. Run 1000 miles as you normally would drive. This is important as you need to duplicate the driving during both stages of the testing.


Drain each can at the 1000 mile mark and show in measuring devices each amount that was trapped. You will see we are ONLY catching what gets past the MM can. Now, clean both, and reverse the order. Ours first and the MM second and drive the same miles with the same driving style you usually drive. This is what you will find:


Ours catches approximately as much as the MM AFTER the vapors passed that design. When reversed, droplets is all that gets past our Patented design. this same test has been done independently by many and while the other can designs do vary in effectiveness, none really come in above 30% vs our 95%. And of course we have test everything we can find like this. Nothing even comes close. So if your goal is nothing more than reducing knock retard due to oil ingestion, why would someone use something that traps a fraction of what the E2-X does?


So please anyone that is totally honest and will to do the test, please email our Engineering and Technical Support Department direct and go over details.


Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com


Cheers!!

[v8]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

It's not about belief, it's about facts. Elite has demonstrated the performance of their can - the end.

I agree the Elite can is a great can, no argument from me on that one. But to be fair this was not Elite demonstrating their can, what did this person compare it to?

[v8]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

Just to clarify, putting the flow restrictor in the cleanside negates the fail safe function that IF you would sustain a pinched ringland or other breach in the piston/ring/cylinder seal, this unrestricted path from the main intake tube will allow excessive pressure to vent backwards from the crankcase, out the cleanside, which filters and contains a certain amount of oil but would release pressure into the intake tube retaining an emissions compliant system. The fixed orifice will maintain as close to a 3.5 CFM of flow possible, even though vacuum may vary from zero to 20-13" depending on operating mode. If we put it in the vacuum line leading to the crankcase instead of the evacuation line, then as the vacuum drops low enough we will fall below the ability to maintain proper flow. The secondary suction source will range between 2-8" of vacuum. Not as much as is ideal, but it is sufficient to continue evacuation at close to the proper rate.


Cheers!!

Great post Elite, but just to clarify, I don't believe putting the restrictor on the clean side would negate the failsafe if you use a one way valve. Thats all that's required, one additional way valve. With the extra one way valve it is impossible for air to flow backwards as you describe. So you need two one way valves if you put the restrictor on the clean side.

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by BlueinTN

Actually I always thought catch cans pulled MORE oil thru at the incorrect times

?

Blowby is always generated, especially under boost, and it has to go somewhere. In this engine, blowby either goes into your intake or into a catch can. The efficiency of the can in terms of trapping it is the issue

The new Civic Type R has an ingenious baffle system in the head that catches most of the blowby and drops it back into the motor, but doesn't completely prevent fuel dilution of the oil

[ZX-10R]

Originally Posted by v8

But to be fair this was not Elite demonstrating their can, what did this person compare it to?

What other catch can manufacturer (and/or private owner) has posted a test like this showing the interior of the supercharger lid after x miles and volume of blowby?

[kwav8r]

Originally Posted by v8

I agree the Elite can is a great can, no argument from me on that one. But to be fair this was not Elite demonstrating their can, what did this person compare it to?

I shot both the install video and the 'after' video.

The only comparison is to watch the install video with the amount of accumulation in the S/C after ~2K miles. This 'after' video was shot after another ~2K miles.

There was a LOT less.